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Matt Pierce [00:00:05]:
Hi. This is Matt Pierce. When I’m not performing rap songs, I’m listening to John Garrett on What’s Your “And”?!

John Garrett [00:00:16]:
Welcome to episode 649 of What’s Your “And”?. This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and. Those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title? And If you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.WhatsYourAnd.com.

John Garrett [00:00:50]:
The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such nice reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those. And more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right. This voice reading the book. Look for what’s your hand on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes.

John Garrett [00:01:16]:
I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, Matt Pierce. He spent over 10 years working for advertising agencies on Madison Avenue in New York City, and now he’s with me here today. Matt, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Matt Pierce [00:01:31]:
Thank you so much, John. I really appreciate it. I love the episode, how you’ve branded the ampersand and you own it. I’m so excited to talk to you today.

John Garrett [00:01:40]:
Massive praise from a marketing advertising guy. Like, that’s huge. So thank you, man. I appreciate that. I’m an accountant at heart, so I don’t know what I’m doing. So that’s awesome. So, yeah, so rapid fire questions here. Buckle up.

John Garrett [00:01:53]:
Socks or shoes?

Matt Pierce [00:01:55]:
Wow. I’ve never heard this in one of your episodes. I’m going with, well, in the apartment in the space, socks. People who wear shoes in their place is a hard no. I don’t know if I’m following the question correctly. I love sneakers, but in inside, socks. No doubt.

John Garrett [00:02:12]:
There you go. Okay. How about puzzles? Sudoku, crossword, jigsaw puzzle?

Matt Pierce [00:02:17]:
I did go through a big Sudoku phase, especially when I was doing a lot of work travel. And, honestly, puzzles for me is songwriting, and that’s how I see songwriting. It’s okay. What were the syllables in the previous line? How can I creatively reflect those? Make it easy for the listener. So I see songwriting as a puzzle in itself.

John Garrett [00:02:36]:
How about a favorite color?

Matt Pierce [00:02:38]:
Okay. So since football season is coming up and I’m a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan, I’ll be wearing a lot of green. So let’s go with green.

John Garrett [00:02:45]:
There you go. How about a least favorite color?

Matt Pierce [00:02:48]:
Least favorite? I don’t believe I own anything that’s orange. So let’s say orange.

John Garrett [00:02:53]:
All right. No, that works. How about your first concert?

Matt Pierce [00:02:56]:
Okay. This is very obscure. Warning. This is a Canadian based band called Moxie Fruvous that I saw when I was in 8th grade. They’re similar to, if you think, Barenaked Ladies Oh, yeah. A little bit silly, kooky, but but very musically talented, almost like an acapella type group. So, yeah, that’s first concert.

John Garrett [00:03:16]:
That’s awesome, man. Blast from the past. That’s great. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Matt Pierce [00:03:22]:
Brad Pitt. I like Tarantino a lot, and Brad Pitt is one of his guys, if you will. So once upon a time in Hollywood, like, glorious bastards, you name it. I do like a lot most of the Brad Pitt films.

John Garrett [00:03:37]:
Yeah. No. That works. How about a toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Matt Pierce [00:03:41]:
This this was really funny. I grew up in an under household. And for a long time, I defended it because of that background. And then I independently realized over the years that I was wrong, and I independently became an over person, and I stand by it now.

John Garrett [00:03:59]:
That’s hysterical. That’s a deal. Was there therapy involved? Oh, years of therapy. Years years. That’s hilarious. That’s so funny. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Matt Pierce [00:04:10]:
Star Wars, no doubt. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen an episode or one of the movies of Star Trek, and I I really do like Star Wars. I do enjoy the pre Disney era more than post with where I’m at right now.

John Garrett [00:04:25]:
I I’ve only seen the the original 3. I’m too scared to go beyond that because don’t ruin it for me. Just the original 3 is where I’m at. So I’m even beyond that. Like, I’m even before, like, all of that. Yeah. Or just lazy. I don’t know which one it is, to be honest, Matt.

John Garrett [00:04:40]:
But either way. How about your computer? You go PC or Mac?

Matt Pierce [00:04:44]:
Mac all day. All of my I produce original music. I edit my own videos. So everything I use is is Mac based.

John Garrett [00:04:52]:
Yeah. Alright. You prefer more hot or cold?

Matt Pierce [00:04:56]:
Lately, I prefer the warmer seasons. I think that’s because, I mean, I worked in an office for so long and my joy of summer went away for a while because I was like, wait. I’m just going into an office all day. I’m not enjoying this. However, now I work outdoors a lot, so I embrace work. I would rather work in the summer than in the winter. I’ve done both, and I take the summer.

John Garrett [00:05:19]:
No, that makes total sense. How about a favorite animal? Any animal at all.

Matt Pierce [00:05:23]:
I think the deer is very beautiful. I’ve traveled to Florida a lot and believe it or not, Southwest Florida has a surprising amount of deer. And one time I stayed at this Airbnb on a golf course, and every night at sunset, you know, I had this porch, and they would come out, you know, when I was, like, after dinner. I’d have, like, my family over, and it was always just so cool.

John Garrett [00:05:44]:
Wow. Yeah. No. That’s awesome. How about, ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Matt Pierce [00:05:50]:
I am going with I’m going with a cone. Gotta go cone. I grew up going to Ocean City, New Jersey, Boardwalk. Core Brothers is one of their big ice creams there. And what they do there in the cone is that you they do a half and half, so you can split 2 random flavors, and they do, they’re like artists back there. They’re just swirling it perfectly. So Yeah. That’s a shout out to the Jersey Shore Boardwalk.

John Garrett [00:06:14]:
How about more suit and tie or jeans and a t shirt?

Matt Pierce [00:06:17]:
Jeans and a t shirt. So the more recent advertising days post Don Draper was very laid back and that’s the era I come from. So everyone’s pretty casual. Like, more casual than you would think and less a client is in. That’s when you suit up. But otherwise, jeans and a t shirt.

John Garrett [00:06:35]:
That’s awesome. That’s great. How about a favorite number?

Matt Pierce [00:06:38]:
Favorite number? I’m gonna say 9 for my man, Nick Foles, from the Philadelphia Eagles. Our only Super Bowl was from that underdog story of Nick Foles, so number 9 forever.

John Garrett [00:06:50]:
There you go. Alright. We got 3 more. How about a least favorite vegetable?

Matt Pierce [00:06:54]:
Least favorite vegetable. Wow. Brussels sprouts.

John Garrett [00:06:58]:
Oh, solid answer. You live in New York City. Do you have a favorite pizza place?

Matt Pierce [00:07:02]:
Oh, man. That is such a hard question. I would say okay. This place, if you know, you know. This is L&B out in Brooklyn, right, by Brighton Beach. They have the greatest Sicilian pizza, maybe the greatest pizza I’ve ever had in my life. I was there this past weekend with a with a friend. Next time you’re in the city, this it is worth the trip.

Matt Pierce [00:07:23]:
It has a cult following. It’s been open 85 years or something like that. It’s a kind of a community space, and they’re square. Sicilian pizza is unreal. That’s number 1.

John Garrett [00:07:34]:
That works, that works. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Matt Pierce [00:07:39]:
People on the audio won’t appreciate it, but imagine a beautiful brown wallet. This is really special to me and my family. My papa passed away when I was in middle school. We were kind of divvying up belongings and I have intact his wallet and it’s everything from the driver’s license to photos of his wedding day to photos of the grandkids. So photos of me, my brother, all my cousins. And I’m just honored that my family, you know, gave this to me. And it’s my favorite thing I have.

John Garrett [00:08:11]:
Yeah. It’s something he carried every day. You know? And, I mean, he touched every day. It wasn’t like a one off knickknack that sat on a shelf. It’s something that was in his pocket, in his hands, and it’s that’s super special, man. That’s awesome. Thanks.

Matt Pierce [00:08:22]:
Yeah. Thank you.

John Garrett [00:08:23]:
That’s incredible. I love it. I love it. So let’s talk music and rapping in particular, I guess, but all kinds of music. But, yeah, but how did that get started?

Matt Pierce [00:08:31]:
So way, way back, I think the simplest way to explain it is I’m obsessed with rap music, and this started when I was a kid. John, this is a funny story. It was so obsessive that my parents came up with a thing and they’re of the generation of they don’t like rap music. They grew up with the Beatles and Pink Floyd and I love that music too, but rap is not their thing. It’s fine. I had a role called No Rap Sunday where if you heard a peep of rap from my room, I would get a knock. Matt, it’s no rap Sunday because that’s how frequently and how obsessed I was with rap growing up. So it started as a kid, and I think it started with the energy of it.

Matt Pierce [00:09:14]:
I have a lot of introvert tendencies and rap is the opposite of that. Rap is the epitome of confidence and it’s the epitome of energy and flossing your skills and I think that connected with me. And, you know, fast forward many years, I started with producing in college. I would experiment with production programs, doing remixes and original instrumentation, started doing shows in Philadelphia after college. And this rings true to your whole philosophy when it really took off, John, was when I brought it into my professional life. When I was working on Madison Avenue and this was kind of the jumping off point where there was no turning back, There was this random in office happy hour and it was like on a Thursday or Friday, whatever, and for whatever reason, I volunteered to perform in the office at the happy hour and I said, I’ll do an original song about the agencies. So this was at Havas, which is one of the biggest ad agency networks in the world. It’s global agency network.

Matt Pierce [00:10:20]:
And I had my modest setup. I had these tiny speakers. I didn’t even have a microphone. I just projected my voice to all the employees of the office, put on the beat, and I name dropped the CEO, the president, the little nuances of clients and inside jokes about ad agency life. And that was it. Like, I became, like, the guy who raps. It reminded me of a story you told on a podcast recently, how, like, 12 years after you worked at a company, the guy you never met, you had zero LinkedIn connections with him, knew you as the I forget what he said. It was

John Garrett [00:10:55]:
like The guy who did comedy at night.

Matt Pierce [00:10:56]:
Comedy at night. Comedy at night. Yeah. And that connected with me because that’s what happened. I would do shows in the lower east side in Manhattan at clubs, and my my coworkers would pack the house. They would all come out and see me perform, and it started a string of events where I would perform at every holiday party, the summer parties. And I performed in front of legit a 1000 people when we had all of Havas come together for a big Christmas party, like, on the main stage. And it even led to doing songs for clients.

Matt Pierce [00:11:28]:
You know, 2 of our biggest clients in my agency career, I did songs for their sales conference in Vegas. I did a song about a physician platform that virtually connected physicians to each other. So it just kinda happened, like, just from leaning in and just being, like, yeah. I’ll perform at that company happy hour and which was terrifying, but then it was fine.

John Garrett [00:11:50]:
I love that so much, man. And, like, I mean, did was there ever a moment you were, like, hey, I could get fired, or no one does this or I shouldn’t share this side of me or was there ever that that went through your head? Or

Matt Pierce [00:12:03]:
So there there was absolutely that. I would say early on when I was, like, post graduation just just starting the work world, I didn’t tell anybody. You know, the only people I would eventually tell were people who were friends. Like, I was roommates with a guy who worked at the agency. So obviously, he knew and then a handful of other peers knew. But I was afraid of what you know, this is a professional environment. What are they gonna think of me?

John Garrett [00:12:26]:
Yeah. What if they do no wrap sundaes? Oh my goodness.

Matt Pierce [00:12:30]:
What if they do no wrap sundaes? Yeah. It was absolutely it was totally scary. And I think what I found is that when people found out about it, sure, there were some people who would like brush it off and know me only in this area of professionalism, only this area of the workplace. But when they saw that this was something that I genuinely, like, really worked at, like, really worked at in terms of my craft, that they understood it. And just like everything, when you make it about them, they’re gonna love it. Like, when I did a song promoting one of those Christmas gift exchange things, I did a whole song and video with some other coworkers that explained the rules. Like here’s how much you should spend on said gift. Here’s the rules of stealing a gift back.

Matt Pierce [00:13:19]:
And even that, that got nominated for an award, which is like some kind of society for medical marketing as an internal video. So the more you make it about them, you make it about the company and them seeing you’re out there grinding, you’re doing shows, you’re getting press, you’re performing on TV. They’re just like, yo, this is so cool. And I think just one last thing I’ll add that was, like, icing on the cake for anyone who’s hesitant to lean into their end is that going back to Havas, I did an agency onboarding music video and it was in the form of music and it was like for any new hire. And that got picked up by Adweek and I was simultaneously kind of talking to another company about an opportunity. And they saw it, and they sent it to the hiring manager who was like, I gotta talk to this guy. Like, bring him in for an interview. So this and ultimately got me a new higher paying job or at least got me in the door and I ended up getting hired because they were like, We want this kind of culture.

Matt Pierce [00:14:22]:
This is amazing. So that’s hopefully inspiring for anyone hesitant to share their end.

John Garrett [00:14:28]:
Yeah. Because, I mean, it’s a differentiator. You know? I mean, you know, the how many other resumes are they getting from people that have degrees and work experience that are very similar to yours? I mean, everyone in the stack. And so all of a sudden, like, that’s your differentiator. And if it’s for them, great. If it’s not for them, also great, because I don’t wanna work there either, you know, type of a thing. And I have to imagine that, you know, when you’re at Havas, I mean, people all the way up know who you are. And when you’re a new hire staff level person, nobody should know who you are above one level.

John Garrett [00:15:00]:
Like, I mean, nobody. You know? And so unless you, like, blow something up, you know, in, like, a crazy way. You know? And so they know you for a good thing. And so that that’s such a cool way to just be like, hey. I’m here. I’m a human. I’m a person. You know? See me for all of who I am and all of what I can do.

John Garrett [00:15:16]:
And and, I mean, do you have any shows that come to mind that you’ve done that that are some of your more favorite?

Matt Pierce [00:15:22]:
Shows I’ve done that my favorite, I performed at Webster Hall in New York City, which is just it’s one of the biggest nightclubs in New York City. That was really special. That’s number 1 because I was still living in Philly at the time and my New York experience and you wouldn’t think this growing up in the northeast. I grew up in Delaware, which is 2 hours from New York City. This was only like a handful of times I’d ever been there, and it was the first time I ever performed there. And I remember it was like my favorite show and the audience and the camaraderie. I remember getting off the stage. This was 2012.

Matt Pierce [00:15:59]:
And I was like, I’m going to move here. And I did the following year. That was my favorite show. So So I was working for a Publicis Agency in Philly who had a New York office. So I started shipping away at, Hey, any opportunities at the New York office? Any opportunities at the New York office? I feel like I was knocking on HR’s door every day until they were like, Hey, Matt. Opportunity in the New York office. You wanna interview for it? And now I’m here.

John Garrett [00:16:23]:
Yeah. No. That’s so cool, though. But imagine that. Like, your first New York City gig, Webster Hall. Like, seriously? Like, that’s crazy. Well, the first time I played baseball was at Yankee Stadium. It’s like, what? That’s amazing.

John Garrett [00:16:35]:
You know, like, it’s just that’s so cool, man.

Matt Pierce [00:16:38]:
Thanks. Thanks.

John Garrett [00:16:39]:
How much do you feel like it’s on an organization to allow people to share their hands or display them as you were able to? Or how much is it on the individual to just kinda start amongst their peers or, you know, be able to step up if that space is created?

Matt Pierce [00:16:55]:
Any culture is going to start from the top is what I’ve learned. And that’s the way it works with any leadership position. You know, you set the tone for the organization, how creative you are, how you run everything, how you run meetings, how you run events, what are the company beliefs. So it definitely starts at the senior level, and you have to practice what you preach. And at the same time, you know, the individual can’t be intimidated. It also probably varies based on industry. Like, an ad agency is on the more hip side. Like, I don’t know if this would be the same if it was some on the client side, like a Pfizer or a Novartis.

Matt Pierce [00:17:37]:
Like, you might not get the same reception, but either way, don’t let that hold you back from sharing it with people. What’s the worst that’s gonna happen? They’re gonna, like, brush it off, whatever. It’s so crucial to truly you know, you capture this so well in your talks and your podcasts. You know, it’s kinda the only way to actually know the person. You know, it’s kinda boring to meet someone who’s like, I’m a marketer, and, like, end of conversation. Like, I don’t really want okay. That’s cool. Like, I don’t really wanna talk about that.

Matt Pierce [00:18:06]:
Like, let’s talk about you coaching your kids’ team or your cooking passion or you own this Etsy shop, like, 95% of people are gonna focus on the latter. Like, the best client dinners I’ve ever had are the ones where we’re not talking about work.

John Garrett [00:18:22]:
Yeah. And then work happens from that. You know? I mean, good things come from that, but the human connection has to be there first. That’s what’s so critical for all of this. And I think it’s great that I mean, you’re a living example of this, and now you’ve made that leap. You know? There’s so many people when they come up to me after I speak and they’re like, oh, I’m thinking about quitting my job to go whatever, and I always tell them don’t because it’s hard. It’s crazy hard to just get escape velocity, and then once you’re out here, it’s harder. It’s you think it’s hard to get here.

John Garrett [00:18:56]:
Try staying. And I don’t wanna be the reason that somebody just, you know, bails on everything, and then when it doesn’t work for them, I’m the first person they find to punch in the face. Because if I tell you don’t and you don’t, well then I just saved you a lot. Like, of time and therapy and heartache

Matt Pierce [00:19:16]:
and everything. Money.

John Garrett [00:19:17]:
And money and all of it. And and health benefits. All the things. But if I tell you don’t and you say, you know what? Screw that guy. I’m doing it anyway. Then, okay. You have what it takes. And so for you to do that jump, I mean, like, what was going through your mind when it was like, okay.

John Garrett [00:19:32]:
Let’s do that?

Matt Pierce [00:19:33]:
This is an amazing question, especially for listeners who are in that boat, which I think a lot of people are. I I know a lot of people are. The first thing I would say is that to your point, I did not seek feedback from one single person before I made this decision. I didn’t run this by family. I didn’t run this by friends. I didn’t run it by former colleagues, current colleagues. That one would be a little tricky. But Right.

Matt Pierce [00:19:57]:
Right. I didn’t because this was my decision to make. I didn’t want any fall guy in the future or, like, I didn’t want this to come from anyone but me because I knew that 95% of people would be like, no. They would say no. And I’m 1 year in, and, John, I’m I’m still so pleased with the decision. No doubt. And the thing that I would I agree with you that most people who would ask me, I would say no. And a few pointers I would give would be, 1, you know, don’t put your, I guess, we’ll call it your and, your passion, on some magical pedestal of, like, escapism.

Matt Pierce [00:20:36]:
Like, don’t put it on something where, especially if you haven’t really pursued it extensively, like, you wouldn’t be like, oh, I’m gonna quit and be a full time reseller because I saw some guy on a YouTube short who’s making this much money a week. Like, you would never do that. You would learn, okay, what are average margins? What brands sell? What resale shops can I get things at for a good price? What does 6 months of data, 18 months of data look like? You know, you would do that. So that’s the first thing I would say. And the other thing, don’t overlook what it means now. Don’t downplay what this and means in the current state because I guarantee you it’s causing more joy, fulfillment than you give it credit for. Like, don’t downplay it because of, oh, my monthly listeners are this or whatever metric you’re going with, appreciate it for what it is and be present with it. Grow it day over day.

Matt Pierce [00:21:37]:
And yes, it’s great that you get fulfillment of it, but the magic combination is when it brings joy to people, when it brings happiness to a crowd, when it brings a product into someone’s hands that gives them use in day to day life, that’s the Venn diagram. That’s the magic spot. And so the last thing I’ll say is that the kicker for me was when I got a paid regular job of performing, you know, that was steady hours per week, you know, was a certain, you know, 4 or 5 days a week, not as many hours as the ad agency world, but it’s a step in that direction. And I was working both jobs. And that’s what did it for me when I was performing and bringing joy to people in New York City. So that’s what I would say for people who are contemplating this tough question.

John Garrett [00:22:28]:
Yeah. It’s it’s keep it as an end. Like, keep it as a hobby. Keep it on the side. And then it’s almost like the coyote in Road Runner, where the coyote has the roller skates and then the cliff starts to split. And he’s got one roller skate on each side of the cliff and his legs are getting crazy long. And then that’s it. Just have 1 roller skate on each side until you reach a point where you can’t hold your feet on each side and then pick.

John Garrett [00:22:52]:
You know and there’s no shame in keeping it as a hobby and there’s no shame in taking the leap either. And both are right answers, but as long as you can, keep it on the side, like keep it as a hobby. But I love that where it’s, you know, I didn’t ask anybody. I was just like, hey, this is my decision and we’ll see what happens. And the kudos to you, man. That’s awesome.

Matt Pierce [00:23:12]:
That’s great. Thank you. No.

John Garrett [00:23:14]:
I figured I’d just ask to see because you’re the first person I’ve had on that has made the leap. I mean, you were living the example for years of having that as an and and and then you reached that point where you’re like, hey, I think I’m gonna give it a go, and a year ago now. That’s incredible, man. It’s so cool. And so I feel like it’s only fair though that that we turn the tables and make this the Matt Pierce podcast and let you fire away. I’m in the hot seat. Whatever you want, man. I’m all yours.

Matt Pierce [00:23:43]:
Cool. I do have some, quick questions. And, John, I do wanna thank you again and just, you know, for your listeners that you are a connector of people and just me seeing your story. Like, I see so many parallels between you as a full time comedian and just blending those worlds, so thank you for this podcast and this voice that you share with all

John Garrett [00:24:02]:
of us. You’re welcome, man. Thank you for being on and being a living example because then it’s there’s 22 year old versions of us that need to hear this and also older versions of us that need to hear this as well. So no. Absolutely.

Matt Pierce [00:24:15]:
Alright. Here we go. The first question is silly. You know, you obviously are a huge ice cream fan, especially when watching Notre Dame football. What’s your favorite ice cream?

John Garrett [00:24:23]:
Yeah. You gotta go, like, chocolate chip cookie dough, just kind of a classic. Or there’s a salted Oreo that’s here in Denver at a place called Little Man Ice Cream, and that’s, deceptively good.

Matt Pierce [00:24:34]:
I’m writing that down because I’m gonna tell my Denver friend about it.

John Garrett [00:24:37]:
They should know. Like, they should know. I’m sure he does.

Matt Pierce [00:24:41]:
Alright. And what was your first pivot from independent stand up comedy to the corporate world?

John Garrett [00:24:48]:
So I actually was the opposite. I was in corporate, and then it was a training in LA was when I learned about stand up. I mean, that it was a job, that it was, oh, it’s people that do this for a living. This is weird. And it was it was so funny because I was working at PricewaterhouseCoopers, huge global consulting firm, and Vince Morris, who had been on premium blend and some other stand up specials and stuff, really nice guy. And so I was talking to him after, and he’s like, what do you do now? And I was like, well, I, you know, I’m a CPA with freshwater House Coopers. He’s like, well, you gotta do something. You know, as this I was, like, making sandwiches or slinging pizzas or something, you know, he’s like, well, you gotta do something.

John Garrett [00:25:26]:
But he’s like, you know, hey, just go to the open mics and record and all that. And so that’s how it started was watching that, Hollywood improv. And some of them were amazing, and then some you’re like, I could be as not funny as that guy, like, now. So that’s how it all started, and it was the open mic at the Funny Bone in Westport in Saint Louis in February of 2000. That was my first time on stage. And then it it was like you with the puzzles. It was a creative outlet from the corporate, and it’s a puzzle to me. You know, what are the words? What are the syllables? What are the cadence? What are those things that, oh, that’s what makes people laugh.

John Garrett [00:26:03]:
Oh, people laugh harder at this. Oh, you know? And so it was just a fun thing that then got bigger, you know, type of a thing. Yeah. So I don’t know if that answered the question. I guess it was a reverse privet. Well, I knew

Matt Pierce [00:26:16]:
you started off in finance and then you did the comedy and then ultimately you merged it into, like, your offering. You know what

John Garrett [00:26:23]:
I mean? Like, you merged

Matt Pierce [00:26:24]:
it into what you currently offer, like, your Family Feud. Like, I’m wondering, what was the first moment where it was like, oh, wait. This can work for this audience.

John Garrett [00:26:34]:
I am a terrible guest. Yes.

Matt Pierce [00:26:36]:
Oh, I probably worded it poorly.

John Garrett [00:26:38]:
So the the pivot from doing stand up to doing corporate speaking entertainment, whatever. Yeah. I was living in New York City. You know, you’re hustling, you’re doing comedy clubs every night, you’re catching the late trains, which means that they’re not on schedule and it’s annoying, and like the trash train comes through and you think it’s yours, but nope, it’s trash. And you’re like, like it’s so frustrating. If you know, you know. And so I had some near misses that would have been pretty awesome and I was just frustrated with entertainment. I was like entertainment is a machine that just needs pieces of meat to throw into.

John Garrett [00:27:10]:
And I don’t wanna be that. And so that’s when I decided, you know, I’m gonna do my own thing and build my own thing, and my people are corporate. I mean, I came from that. I am that. Like, those are my people. So I just went back towards that, and then when I had the guy remember me 12 years later from when I was speaking at an event, and I was just like, that’s a thing. Like, that’s definitely a thing. And that’s what became the seed that now is what’s your and and the whole ampersands and all the things.

John Garrett [00:27:40]:
So that’s where that shift happened was just me getting frustrated and butting my head up against the wall and reaching dead end after dead end after dead end and being like, this shouldn’t be this hard. It shouldn’t be this way. Like, this is crazy. And so then, you know, just backing up 2 steps, reassessing, and then, you know, trying over here. And, yeah, it’s been great.

Matt Pierce [00:28:00]:
Thanks for sharing that. That’s great. And the final question I have is, you know, so many people are the number one fear is just public speaking. And what’s the one with your expertise in public speaking, like, what’s the one tip that you give aspiring speakers?

John Garrett [00:28:16]:
Always, always, always. It’s what do you want them to feel? That’s the first thing. It’s not what do I wanna tell them, what do I wanna say, what do I no, no. It’s what do you want them to feel? Because if they are bored out of their skull, then they will not listen to any of the supposed genius that you have to offer. So what do I want them to feel? What’s that experience that you wanna create? And then from there, then it’s what do I wanna say? What’s the message I wanted them to go home with or whatever? But so many speakers skip over what do I want them to feel, and they they don’t even think about that. And in my mind, I’m like, well, apparently, bored out of their skull was what you were going for. Because come up there with your slides of, you know, a 1000 words on Arial font and, you know, and and no one can read them. And if they’re reading it, they’re not listening to you.

John Garrett [00:29:03]:
It it’s a proven thing. And so just what do you want them to feel? What’s that experience that you wanna create? And then create that, and then from there, then get on to what you think is most important. But that’s, I think, the the hands down the most important thing that a lot of speakers skip or forget. And I would imagine that as a as a performer, I mean, it’s the same thing. Like it doesn’t matter how brilliant the words are in your rap. If no one’s ready for it, if you don’t have an experience around it, then it’s dead. I mean, it just falls on deaf ears because no one’s actually listening. There’s something to it that’s more than just the content.

Matt Pierce [00:29:40]:
That’s inspiring. That’s inspiring. Thank you. That’s what I had. Thank you so much.

John Garrett [00:29:46]:
Well, thank you for being a part of What’s Your Hand and just being a living example of this and inspiring others, man. So thank you so much, Matt. I appreciate it.

Matt Pierce [00:29:53]:
Thank you, John.

John Garrett [00:29:57]:
Yeah. And everybody listening, if you wanna see some pictures of Matt in action or connect with him on social media, check out his YouTube channel. I tell you, it’s amazing. Be sure to go to www.WhatsYourAnd.com. All the links are there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button to the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.