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John Garrett [00:00:00]:
Hey, this is John Garrett. I’m passionate about making work more human, especially in this age of AI. I don’t just host this podcast. I also help organizations put people first through my keynote speaking, coaching, and What’s Your “And”?™ implementation programs. To learn more or to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, I invite you to join the movement at whatsyourand.com. Now let’s jump into this week’s conversation.

Dan McMahon [00:00:21]:
Hi, this is Dan McMahon, and when I’m not dabbling in improvisational comedy, I’m listening to Jon Garrett on the What’s Your “And”? podcast.

John Garrett [00:00:36]:
Welcome to episode 715 of What’s Your “And”?. This is Jon Garrett, and each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And”— those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of, “Who else are you beyond the job title?”. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award-winning bestselling book on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.whatsyourand.com. The book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon.

John Garrett [00:01:25]:
Thank you so much for those. It means so much. It’s crazy how silly that matters. And more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look What’s Your And on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast. You don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest Dan McMahon.

John Garrett [00:01:49]:
He’s the founder and managing partner of Integrated Growth Advisors out of Hilton Head, South Carolina, and now he’s with me here today. Dan, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Dan McMahon [00:01:58]:
John, my pleasure to be here. I appreciate the opportunity.

John Garrett [00:02:03]:
Yeah, and you saw me speak at a conference, so, you know, we brushed vads, but I figured, you know, let’s hang out and record this for everyone to hear us chatting. So I appreciate it.

Dan McMahon [00:02:13]:
I gotta tell you, I was in hook, line, and sinker on what’s your and when I heard you speak, and I’m really glad to be here.

John Garrett [00:02:20]:
Hey, thanks, man. It’s, it’s— I truly believe this is our collective movement, and you’re as much a part of it as I am, and everyone else who’s listening and everyone who’s been a guest, so But I, I gotta get to know Dan on a new level here. 17 rapid-fire questions. I think this might be an easy one. Do you have a favorite sports

Dan McMahon [00:02:37]:
team? Sorry to say, it’s the Chicago White Sox.

John Garrett [00:02:40]:
Oh wow, okay, all right. There’s, there’s— you and the Pope, I guess, are the two, the two White Sox fans. Here you go. Uh, how about a favorite color? Blue. Okay, but not Cubs blue, like— no, not Cubs blue, right, right, right.

Dan McMahon [00:02:56]:
Chicago White Sox blue from the 1970s

John Garrett [00:02:58]:
when they had— oh nice! Yeah, where they had like the, the

Dan McMahon [00:03:03]:
batter, the shorts and the vertically challenged batter.

John Garrett [00:03:06]:
Yep. Yeah, right, right, exactly. It was like from Nintendo, RBI Baseball kind of guy. How about a least favorite color? Mauve.

Dan McMahon [00:03:15]:
Oh, mauve.

John Garrett [00:03:15]:
I don’t even know how to spell it. Yeah, like it’s— yeah, that’s a good, that’s a good one. How are you, more early bird or night owl?

Dan McMahon [00:03:22]:
I’m more of a night owl, unfortunately. I think I can get a lot more done if I got up early enough, but You know, I get some stuff done after hours.

John Garrett [00:03:31]:
There you go, there you go. How about a least favorite vegetable? Brussels sprouts. Solid. Yes. Yeah, like, grow up and be a real cabbage. Like, why you stop— exactly. So small.

Dan McMahon [00:03:42]:
And everybody seems to have Brussels sprouts on the menu in these trendy restaurants, and I stay away.

John Garrett [00:03:48]:
It’s because they’re cheap, because no one else wants to buy them. I think that’s why. Like, it’s a— how about a favorite comedian? John Garrett. Ahahaha, you’re already on the show, man. Besides John Garrett, do you have a favorite comedian?

Dan McMahon [00:04:01]:
I’d have to say, regardless of some of the personal challenges, Louis C.K. is one of my all-time favorites. He— I totally feel like I’m him with his comedy skits. I mean, he, he’s amazing.

John Garrett [00:04:13]:
I could definitely see that. Yeah, very much. How about a, uh, toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Dan McMahon [00:04:20]:
Over the top.

John Garrett [00:04:21]:
Oh, okay. All right, there you go. How about Star Wars or Star Trek? Star Wars. Nice. There you go. How about puzzles? Sudoku, crossword, maybe a jigsaw puzzle?

Dan McMahon [00:04:32]:
I’m so glad you asked that at this stage of my life because I was into none of that until I got into Sudoku, like, I don’t know, a year and a half ago. I think it’s great.

John Garrett [00:04:42]:
Oh, okay. That’s, that’s fantastic. I’ve done some, but I know people are really, really into it. Like really into it. I might on the back of the magazine at the air— you know, on the airplane maybe, as usually when I do them. But yeah, that’s cool. Uh, how about your computer? More PC or Mac?

Dan McMahon [00:04:57]:
PC, but strangely I’ve got an iPhone and all the, you know, iPad and all that kind of stuff, right?

John Garrett [00:05:03]:
But yeah, the computer’s still PC. You’re hanging on. There you go. How about a favorite animal? Any animal at all?

Dan McMahon [00:05:10]:
I would say a dog.

John Garrett [00:05:12]:
Yeah, that’s a great answer.

Dan McMahon [00:05:13]:
Love dogs.

John Garrett [00:05:14]:
Dogs are awesome. Are you more oceans or mountains?

Dan McMahon [00:05:17]:
I’d say in between. I live near the ocean, but I really like— I like being in a cooler climate with, you know, nice landscape around me and just chilling out with a cup of coffee.

John Garrett [00:05:29]:
Yeah. And by morning you mean like 11? Yeah, that’s

Dan McMahon [00:05:36]:
right.

John Garrett [00:05:36]:
There you go. Uh, how about a, a favorite band or musician?

Dan McMahon [00:05:40]:
That’s a good one. I’m, I’m really into Kenny Chesney lately. I like his genre.

John Garrett [00:05:45]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. How about since you have the CPA background, you more balance sheet or income statement?

Dan McMahon [00:05:51]:
I’m P&L all the way.

John Garrett [00:05:52]:
Oh, all the way.

Dan McMahon [00:05:53]:
There it is. Charging, hard charging. Definitely a carnivore and less of an herbivore, let’s say.

John Garrett [00:06:00]:
Okay, there you go. That makes sense. That makes sense. Do you have a favorite number?

Dan McMahon [00:06:04]:
Favorite number is 27. I just like the way the 2 and the 7 spatially, uh, look next to each other. So that’s why.

John Garrett [00:06:12]:
Yeah, I never even thought about that, but yeah, you’re right. How about a favorite season? Summer, winter, spring, or fall?

Dan McMahon [00:06:17]:
Fall is my favorite season. Uh, right now I live in the South. I grew up in the North. Love the change of seasons, change of colors, and fall would be it.

John Garrett [00:06:26]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, uh, last thing, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Dan McMahon [00:06:31]:
Favorite thing I have, I would say, is my wife, my loving wife. So I’m lucky.

John Garrett [00:06:36]:
That totally counts, and you get to sleep in the bed again. So good for you, good answer. Like, it’s— in case she’s listening. Let’s talk comedy and how did that get started?

Dan McMahon [00:06:48]:
Well, you know, a big contextual clarification: I’ve done some improv and some stand-up comedy, clearly as a hobby. Uh, don’t quit your day job is, is something that I’ve heard quite a bit from some of my friends who

John Garrett [00:07:03]:
have heard my stuff, but they’ve never been on stage. So what’s up? That’s true. You know, be the man in the arena, John.

Dan McMahon [00:07:10]:
That’s right, that speaks to it. You know, I, I started with improv. I did about 4 solid years of, of schooling in improv. Where’d you do that? Improvolution in New York City, which is also now tied to iMergence corporate, uh, training. Holly Mandel is the founder of both. And I’ve also done some work out of, uh, Front Porch Improv in Savannah, Georgia. So I got into improv. I mean, a true story, absolute true story.

Dan McMahon [00:07:41]:
I decided to stop drinking one holiday season, and I came out— it was like my New Year’s resolution. And I also had come out of being a CPA for many years, so I was thawing out from a career being a CPA, and I was trying to do something positive and fresh for myself that didn’t involve drinking. And, uh, I was sitting there and I was thinking, I’ve got to do something with my Saturdays. I don’t know what to do with myself in, in January. And I’d always wanted to try improv. I had friends that suggested I should, so I thought, you know what, I’m going to just take an intro to improv class on a Saturday. 3 hours on a Saturday, can’t hurt. And from that point forward, I went through 4 solid years— like, there was not a period of time in 4 years where I was not signed up for a class.

Dan McMahon [00:08:33]:
And It was a ton of fun. I learned so much about myself. I became more calm. I became more confident. I became a better listener. And I really did it a little bit for the thrill of it, but also to be a better public speaker. But really what I got out of it was the listening skills and the teamwork, the collaboration that came from it.

John Garrett [00:08:55]:
Yeah. And the joy. I mean, you felt alive. Like, you know, if, if it was, well, you have to go do this to be better at work. You know, then I don’t think you would do it for 4 years. You know, you would have done one, one class and there we go, check, and I’m out, you know. And, and so I, I think that’s what’s so cool about these ans are it taps into a deeper piece of your soul that you can’t undo, you know. Once you’ve gone there, then it’s like, well, now I got to keep feeding this because this is why I’m alive, you know, type of thing.

John Garrett [00:09:29]:
And so it’s cool that you were able to tap into that and feel that.

Dan McMahon [00:09:33]:
Yeah, thanks. And, and yes, and that was so true about my experience. I— so this goes back 10 years now since I first started this. So I did 4 years of solid classes, and then I’ve spattered in some classes just to keep myself, uh, fresh and comfortable on stage. And once you’ve done improv— improv is, as you know, it’s all about just showing up and You know, I come from a CPA background, an accountant, where I was nervous when I showed up in a boardroom. I was nervous that I was going to get a question that I had not already anticipated in all the late nights that I had prepared for that, just that actual meeting. So once I learned improv, I learned a question’s going to come. If I don’t have the answer on the spot, I could always get the right answer.

Dan McMahon [00:10:23]:
I don’t want to You know, I don’t want to misrepresent the facts to a board of directors, but I learned to, you know, just show up, be comfortable, be comfortable within your own skin. And it brought a lot of that out of me.

John Garrett [00:10:36]:
That’s awesome. And that’s where the confidence comes from too, of, you know, I don’t need to know the answer, I just need to know who does know the answer and— that’s true— get back to you, you know. And, and that’s totally fair. But our ego is so against all of what you just said, and our ego has been fed so much all through our education, through our CPE, through getting getting the CPA license, like, you know, all of these degrees and certifications that professionals have is all just pumping up this ego that is this scared little child that won’t get out of the way. And so, it’s cool that you were able to peek around and be like, “No, no, there’s other parts of me too. Let’s come play.”

Dan McMahon [00:11:16]:
Yeah. I think if we were to have this discussion, say, 15, 16 years ago, at that time, I was, I was an audit partner in an accounting firm. And you say, Dan, what’s your and? I would have said my tax partner, because— there you go— without him, he’s got all the and.

John Garrett [00:11:36]:
That’s— I need to start throwing that in there to people, be like, yeah, your and is not, uh, more work, or, you know, a colleague. That doesn’t count. Like, yeah, but, but sadly, that’s how most of us are indoctrinated to think, because I, I kind of think about it, we’re all on like this merry-go-round on like a playground, and no one wants to be on it, but no one stops the ride to just be like, hey, does anyone want off for just even just 5 minutes just to like catch your breath and not be dizzy and want to throw up? Do you want to just hit pause? Like, let’s just— and it— but no one stops the ride. And that’s usually when I come in and speak is where the ride stops. And then all of a sudden people are like, oh, what’s this feeling that I’ve not felt before? Because I’ve, I’ve been spun around for decades, you know. So good for you for tapping into that. And, and do you have some, some favorite shows that you’ve done that come to mind? I’m sure the first one’s got to be pretty high on the list.

Dan McMahon [00:12:34]:
I had a ton of fun in my first show. I had some friends show up and they were— really, the first improv show is all about the thrill of being up there and, you know, the blood’s— you know, your blood is pumping and you’re a little bit nervous, but you know you can do it. I’m at a point now where I don’t even I don’t, I don’t feel anything when I get on stage in an improv scenario. So I’d say my first improv show. But what I’ve done, as we’ve discussed offline, is to get a further— I don’t know if it’s a thrill or more just to try and display some courage. And I, and I do this for myself, but I also do it because I ask my clients to step out of their comfort zone quite a bit. And if I can demonstrate that I do that very comfortably, step out of my comfort zone, I think it gives me a little bit of credibility when I’m trying to push them to do something unusual. So I’ve tried out stand-up, which I know that you know very well, a lot about stand-up comedy.

Dan McMahon [00:13:37]:
And I would say my, my first stand-up comedy show, of which there’s only been one so far, I’ve done some open mics and, and, you know, classroom release.

John Garrett [00:13:49]:
Those all count, man.

Dan McMahon [00:13:50]:
Those count. They do count. But when you do a show and there’s an audience— it was a show at my school, so it wasn’t like, uh, getting on stage at the Chicago Theatre, but it was at my, my school, and they brought in 100 people, very supportive audience, and it was just— it was such an exhilarating experience. And I, I got up there, I was not nervous. Until about halfway through, I started having a conversation with myself while I’m giving my jokes. I’m saying, you idiot, you have a lot of lines to remember for this. You got a challenge ahead of you for the next 2 minutes. And at that point, I started to, you know, get a little cottonmouth and dry mouth.

Dan McMahon [00:14:35]:
And then I got a laugh from the audience and immediately right back on track.

John Garrett [00:14:39]:
So that was a thrill. That’s fantastic, man. And, and to people listening that don’t understand, like, improv and stand-up are they’re cousins up to a point. And then the fork in the road is very— it’s like finance and accounting where, well, they’re similar, but then there’s a fork in the road where they are not at all similar. And so, you know, I, that’s probably the closest equation I could think of, but I love how you were like, well, let’s, you know, continue to do this. And, and it’s a different thing when it’s just you, you know, improv, you’re using ideas from the audience. So the audience is on your side already. Oh, he said, you know, rake, and I suggested rake.

John Garrett [00:15:16]:
He’s my favorite, you know, like, so like an improv, they’re already on your side, you know, and standup, they’re not at all on your— so you got to get them to neutral and then get them to laugh. So, you know, it’s, it’s some work, but it’s all you. So all the laugh is you and all the laugh is, and it’s stuff that you’ve seen and you’ve observed. And so that’s really powerful, man. That’s, that’s super cool. You experienced that.

Dan McMahon [00:15:40]:
That’s awesome. Yeah. And, and you, you know as well as I do, if not more, the standup is all about preparation. And if you draw, draw a parallel to our accounting careers, again, I talked about being in front of a board of directors back when I was practicing as a CPA. I needed to be prepared. Or you’re gonna do a big presentation to your firm as a partner or as a managing partner. You better be prepared. That’s what standup is.

Dan McMahon [00:16:07]:
Whereas, uh, improv is more about winging it.— and listening and responding in a way that’s maybe creative, but maybe not even creative. It’s just advancing the conversation.

John Garrett [00:16:18]:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s exactly it right there. And unfortunately, with stand-up, the only way you know it’s funny is by saying it out loud to strangers. Um, you know, you could think it’s amazing, like, this is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard in my entire life, and then nothing. And you’re like, what? Or what’s even crazier is like when I was doing it full-time, like, you know, you do first show Friday It destroys, like applause break. Second show Friday, nothing. It’s like same day, same me, same, like, town, same everything. It’s like none of this makes sense, you know? And so, but then eventually you tweak the words, you tweak the syllables, you tweak the— you polish that joke up to where, okay, we’re getting closer to where it hits everybody.

John Garrett [00:16:59]:
To me, it was a puzzle. It’s a very challenging puzzle. And what also tripped me up too was the words I would say, people, it gets into their ear and then they translate it into words they would use. And then that’s what gets plugged into their brain. So they would come up and say something about some, you know, and I’m like, I never said that word at all, like in my whole 30 minutes. And they’re like, oh no, you didn’t. And I go, no, no. Or, or like, uh, there was a joke I did about this huge person and they’re like, well, you know, the fat joke.

John Garrett [00:17:30]:
And I was like, no, I never You made him fat. I didn’t. So you should be mad at yourself about it. I, I— what— they were an offensive lineman. It’s a dude, 6’10”, 300 pounds. He’s not fat, he’s just giant. Um, you know, but you made him fat, you know. But people hear a huge person and they translate it into what they think it is.

John Garrett [00:17:50]:
And so you really have to watch the word choices and what you say or how you say it and, and be confident in, you know what, somebody’s going to hear this and it’s going to be on them and it’s going to be hilarious because that’s their fault, you know.

Dan McMahon [00:18:02]:
Yeah. And be authentic. Yeah, I am a big guy, and I told you one of my jokes, you know, I get up in front of the group, so I walk on stage, all of a sudden they see a really big guy, and my wife is— she’s like 5’4″, I’d say 120 pounds. I don’t remember the weight, but she’s petite, let’s say, you know. I say that that’s what my wife is, and I don’t want to say that I’m fat but I say, I’m this, you know, because they already see me, you know, totally already make the judgment about you. And you have to respect that and

John Garrett [00:18:40]:
accept it and roll with it and roll with common language, you know, well, that, you know, that technically isn’t what it is. But that’s what general population says this word means. So that’s what we got to roll with, you know, you’re not here to educate people. Like, that’s silly, you know, I’m here to entertain. Do coworkers and colleagues and clients know about this side of you? I’m sure since you’re encouraging them to step out a little bit and be uncomfortable, they know about this journey you’re on.

Dan McMahon [00:19:10]:
Yes, uh, there was a point when they did not, and I actually said to a client one time, I said, uh, it was in the flow of our conversation, I said, I said, by the way, uh, I do a little bit of improv. And he said, “I can see that.” And I’m thinking, “What, you don’t take me seriously?” You know, that was— Right? But now I’ve realized I don’t take myself too seriously, and I do share that with my clients, and I’m not afraid to. If I’m gonna do it, I gotta put it all out there and, uh, let the chips fall where they may. And, and there are some, some people that are a little turned off by it, I struggle to wonder why I’m around those people in the first place, but they, they have a problem with it because they just, you know, I’m

John Garrett [00:19:59]:
not Eddie Murphy, you know. Oh, because they want someone that’s either you’re going to be super famous overnight, or— what they don’t realize is Eddie Murphy was not famous for a very long time and then popped, you know. That’s silly, and that’s their own judgment because they— that’s what I found is that’s on them, uh, 99.9% of the time, um, because they don’t have an and, or they wish they were brave enough and had the courage that you do to try something that brings you joy. You’re not out there to try to become the next, you know, Louis C.K., Eddie Murphy, and you name the next person. You’re just out here to do something that brings you joy. Like, that’s it. Like, I’m not— I didn’t say that I was here to become super famous and then like world record-breaking comedian or whatever. Like, I’m just doing comedy.

Dan McMahon [00:20:44]:
That’s it. And I think John, Jon, the work that you do, the work that we do, it is about authenticity and it’s about encouraging people to be authentic. And I am who I am. So, I appreciate that, that a lot of— most people are supportive of my hobbies.

John Garrett [00:21:02]:
Yeah, absolutely. And so, do you feel like when it comes to the client relationships, going back to your CPA day where your “and” was the tax partner versus now your “and” being, you know, hobbies and passions that light you up on a soul level? Do you feel like those client relationships are different or are they similar?

Dan McMahon [00:21:20]:
That’s a great question because I never really thought about that. But since you’re asking the question, I think that I’m an entrepreneur, okay? So, I don’t work for a large organization as much as I want our marketing to make it look like it is a pretty deep organization. So, as an entrepreneur, I— at times, years ago, I, I would be like grasping, holding on to a client. I don’t want to lose this client. But now it’s just, you know, it’s just more— everything’s more natural. They know who I am and they can respect it or not. Largely they respect it, uh, but the authenticity and just, just being comfortable in my own skin helps me be a better advisor and helps them respond to me that way.

John Garrett [00:22:06]:
I, I mean, I would have to believe it, even if on the surface level it’s the same from the outside. From the inside, it feels stickier, it feels more natural, it feels more authentic, more genuine because you’re more in line with yourself. And so, therefore, that translates over to, you know, all relationships but also, you know, client relationships when you share. And, you know, it’s not like you shared your end of like, “Hey, you know, I do improv comedy,” and a client’s like, “All right, that’s it. I’m done. Like, we’re never working with you ever again.” Like, that’s not a thing. Like, that’s crazy. So, how much do you feel like on an organization, it’s on the organization to create the space for people to share their “and” and shine a light on that? Or how much is it on the individual to just start small with their peers and, and, you know, do it themselves?

Dan McMahon [00:22:57]:
I think it’s a good idea for an organization to be open to allowing people to be their authentic selves. And, and then it ultimately falls to the individual. You’ve got to want more than just debits and credits if you’re an accountant. And, you know, you come to the office, you take everything that’s in your inbox and you move it to your outbox and you go home. There’s got to be more to life. There’s got to be more to work. And clients and people that you work with are going to enjoy being around you more, you know, regardless of what your hobbies are. And Sudoku might be the big hobby, and you talk about that great Sudoku puzzle you just solved last night.

Dan McMahon [00:23:33]:
And, you know, people, people want to be around people that have some depth.

John Garrett [00:23:38]:
Yeah, I love that. That’s, it’s so true. Absolutely so true. I mean, you know, we’re always so worried about being the best technically sound professional and, uh, you know what, uh, plus or minus, we’re all pretty much technically sound. You know, you have to be a savant to be like, oh wow, remember that, you know, one person, but there’s millions of the rest of us that if you’re hanging your hat on your technical skills, completely forgettable. Um, there’s no differentiator there because the next person that’s going to sit in your chair is going to do the same work, maybe even a little bit better, you know? And so, you know, yes, be technically sound and be good at your job. I’m not belittling that at all. I’m just saying that’s just table stakes.

John Garrett [00:24:22]:
Like, there’s more to who you are. Uh, share that a little bit. And so do you have any words of encouragement to people listening that feel like I have an and, but no one cares because it has nothing to do with my job type of thing?

Dan McMahon [00:24:34]:
I think it’s okay if, if you think no one cares, just keep doing it and doing what makes you more complete as a person, and you’ll find your people. I think for me, it really took me to step outside of an accounting firm. I worked in an accounting firm for 19 years, and, uh, once I stepped out of the accounting firm, and I, and I felt like there was no life after accounting, and I stepped out of the accounting firm and I redefined myself and I, I rebuilt myself around the things that I like to do. And the things that I’m good at. And then I wove in the improv, which really, for me, it just— it completed me. And I’m still working on myself. I’m still trying to, uh, become stronger physically and, and get myself into some better shape, but physically. But, uh, but, you know, these are the things that focusing on you and, and who you are individually is just going to make you a better professional.

John Garrett [00:25:32]:
At the end of the day, I, I love that. I mean, cuz I mean, we’re all a work in process. I mean, you know, we’re— there’s an evolution here. We’re never finished. And I feel like because work pays the bills, that becomes 100% of our identity. And really, if you think about it, it’s 10 or 15% of who you are. Uh, you got friends and family and faith and hobbies and passions and interests and all these other dimensions to who you are.— and yet we allow that 10 or 15% to become 100%. And it’s sad.

John Garrett [00:26:04]:
So, it’s so cool that you realized these other dimensions, built on that foundation, and then brought the 10 or 15% along, you know, and then it only enhanced it even more. It’s not like you’re, you know, homeless and broke and don’t have a job now, you know. This isn’t a crazy hypothetical, you know, bubble world make-believe thing. It’s real and you’ve lived it. And so it’s so cool to have, have you be a part of it.

Dan McMahon [00:26:27]:
So powerful to hear, man. It’s an important part of who I am. And I know there are many people out there that share the same, the same experience.

John Garrett [00:26:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. And so this has been really fantastic, but I feel like it’s only fair before I wrap this up, since I fired away at you with so many questions at the beginning, that we turn the tables, make this the Dan McMahon podcast. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Or whatever kind of music you want, and we’ll fix that later. But I’m in the hot seat. I’m all yours. What do you— what questions you got for me?

Dan McMahon [00:26:58]:
Well, I appreciate the chance to have

John Garrett [00:27:00]:
the tables turned, and I’ll be fair. Okay, because I’m super nervous. I’m not going to lie.

Dan McMahon [00:27:04]:
I guess this is— I can tell. I can tell. So, um, I’m very intrigued and impressed by your journey. I mean, the courage you’ve displayed by stepping away from an accounting career and becoming a stand-up comedian for pay.— and you fed yourself and you didn’t feed yourself as much as I fed myself as an accountant, but you fed yourself. So what was the impetus for you to do that? Were you always the class clown or were you the, the funny guy in the audit engagements?

John Garrett [00:27:37]:
What triggered you to do that? I mean, growing up, we moved a lot. My dad was in the Air Force. So every 2 or 3 years I was always the new kid at school. And I found I was a pretty good athlete, uh, so that helped. Also, everybody loves the kid with jokes, you know, but they’re all street jokes, joke book jokes, uh, Mad Libs, um, you know, those sort of things. And then as I got older, like, was watching In Living Color and the old SNLs and Kids in the Hall and, and, you know, stuff like that. And, um, you know, some— a little bit of Monty Python. That was before me, but still would catch some of that.

John Garrett [00:28:11]:
But it was never a job. Like, that’s crazy. Are you serious? Like, no one— that’s not a job. I don’t even know who does that or how, like, these 8 people apparently do it as a job. Like, they’re like astronauts, you know, or, you know, they’re unicorns, or I don’t know. I guess there’s some people that do this, but I didn’t— yeah. And then, uh, we were at a training in LA and a group of us went to the Improv in Hollywood and saw, you know, a 3-hour show and Some of the stand-ups were amazing, and you had seen them on Premium Blend and Comedy Central stuff. And then some of them, I was like, well, I could be as not funny as that guy.

John Garrett [00:28:46]:
Like, you know, and this is Hollywood. I lived in St. Louis at the time. Like, I could— so just decided to just give it a go and see what happens. And it, it was just a puzzle. It was a creative outlet. It was a fun challenge for me. But it, but it was, it was something that spoke to me on a deeper level.

John Garrett [00:29:04]:
Because that’s why I kept doing it. I mean, why would you get up in front of strangers and tell them what you think and then hope they laugh? Like, that’s the— it’s the weirdest thing. It’s, it’s, it’s so weird that I get up in front of people I’ve never met in my life, I say words, and then their response collectively is to all laugh. Like, it’s just crazy. That’s really what got that started. And then now with the keynote speaking and, you know, helping people, you know, redefine their workplaces to be human first, is taking my journey and my story and taking it back to corporate, kind of this boomerang of, hey, you’ve got a whole bunch of John Garretts up in here that are very talented and very— have a lot of skills that go above and beyond their degrees and certifications. And you need to find out what those are and tap into those and lean on those because that’s what’s gonna keep them around. You know, I, I had, when I, when I decided to go full-time, I had a new manager that had come in from the outside and, he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

John Garrett [00:30:06]:
So we would butt heads often. And so clearly that— and then another department that was tangential to ours, that director was kept— because I would refer to comedy as my career and accounting was my job. Like, I’m doing accounting just to pay for things till this comedy thing takes off. And so he would— this other director would, would belittle that, and openly And so, had it been the other way around where they embraced that and they leveraged that and they enhanced, I might still be there accidentally. But because, you know, you, you sort of made this almost like, “John, you have to decide,” or they sort of built these walls or they kind of— everybody, all my peers loved it. You know, when I, I’d be on the Bob and Tom Show, huge radio show, and I would come into the office and people are like, hey, we listened to like the whole 2-hour— I’m like, so no one was doing work for like hour and a half, 2 hours, uh, you know, while I was on the radio. And like, and so everybody loved it, you know, but, but people remember you, and, and the right people remember you. And, and so that’s what, that’s what matters.

John Garrett [00:31:13]:
And, and you’re doing it for yourself, like you said. I’m not doing this for anybody else’s approval. I don’t care. Like, I mean, I don’t care if you like it or not, or you think I’m funny or not, and I think I am, so who cares?

Dan McMahon [00:31:24]:
You know, like, what’s up? Yeah. And you just spoke about how somebody else projected their own— either you want to say insecurities or discomfort or fear or their own inadequacies as a full human, you know, some robotic accountant saying, you know, you’ve got to pick your lane. And you’re right, you could have ended up there accidentally, and that would have been just fine. That would have been really great for the firm because you’re a revenue-producing asset. Yeah, yeah, maybe not so great for you because you put in so many hours and, you know, maybe you’d have a fulfilling career if you’d stuck around. But I, I totally get it. And, and your concept of what’s your and is like something that I innately relate to philosophically. I didn’t— I never articulated it.

Dan McMahon [00:32:12]:
I always felt it, and I felt it with my peers. I did mentoring and, and I would always encourage people to, you know, talk about the Yankees and Red Sox. Don’t— you’re going to lunch, don’t bring your— don’t bring your Cliff Notes on auditing derivatives.

John Garrett [00:32:27]:
Just talk about the Yankees and Red Sox. Everybody knew if you come to lunch with me, first of all, it’s going to be off-site, and second of all, we’re not talking about work. And as soon as you start talking about work, I’m going to nip that in the bud right immediately. Everybody knew that about me. Like, we’re not talking about work if

Dan McMahon [00:32:40]:
we go to lunch with John. In a relationship-based business such as accounting, think about how far that takes you as— a business developer, a relationship builder. There’s a lot of talk nowadays about this relationship versus transactional, the tension between the two because of technology and AI. It’s still about relationships. And, you know, you demonstrated that.

John Garrett [00:33:05]:
So, I do have one more question. It’s

Dan McMahon [00:33:09]:
all yours, man. It’s your show. When did you determine it’s time for you to write the book? And did you name it What’s Your End because it was your philosophy, or did you title the book after you wrote it? Was it during your public accounting career?

John Garrett [00:33:24]:
Was it later on? Oh, very much later on. And what’s your and is— it’s, it’s not what’s your or, you know. I mean, you’re, you’re an accountant and, you know, a comedian. You’re an attorney and a ballroom dancer, you know. Like, you’re all these things, uh, you’re not one thing. And so that’s, that’s where it came about, and it’s been an evolution. And the book came about because I was speaking a lot, and then people would come up after and say, hey, do you have a book “Because my manager isn’t here and he needs to hear this or she needs to hear this.” And so you have— if enough people ask and then finally you’re like, “All right, I think I should probably write a book.” Because I never thought I’d write a book. I mean, who writes books? Like, you know, college professors with tweed coats and patches on their elbows? Like, that’s not me.

John Garrett [00:34:12]:
Like, what do you— you know, people that smoke pipes? Like, I don’t know. Like, what do you— like, I, I don’t know who writes books. So went through that journey, but I knew that it was dialed in because I had said it to thousands of people over years. And so I knew that the message resonated and that it landed and that it was true. That gave me the confidence to fight through the inner demons of who are you to write a book? Well, because I know it’s true. Um, and because I know people need it and people need to hear it and it’s changed lives and it matters. And this message is deep. And it’s significant and it’s our collective message.

John Garrett [00:34:48]:
Somebody needs to just, you know, throw the book out there so people can share it and be moved by it. And so that’s, that’s really where it came from was after people asking. The accountant in me is still very strong, risk-averse through and through. So, you know, I’m going to need 87 people to ask for something before I go, oh, maybe I should— oh, you would like one-to-one coaching? Yeah, I can do that. Absolutely. Get certified in Integral Theory executive coaching. Like, I can do that now., but I never thought about doing that until finally several clients ask and I’m like, all right, yeah, apparently that’s something I should do. So yeah, but the, but the book’s been a journey and it’s been really cool to see how it ripples out to people that were beyond the Kevin Bacon degrees of, so, you know, like, I don’t know how that person got it or where they heard it from or whatever.

Dan McMahon [00:35:38]:
So it’s been really cool. That’s great. Well, uh, I’ll wrap up my portion of the show and I appreciate the chance to, to test drive that. It’s impressive. Intriguing, and, uh, I appreciate knowing you, and I appreciate, uh, being a guest on your show, John.

John Garrett [00:35:54]:
Ditto, man. It’s, it’s so cool having you be a part of this and, and sharing your story. And there’s 22-year-old us that needs to hear this. And everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Dan on stage or connect with him on social media, be sure to go to www.whatsyouran.com. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click the big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use, and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.