Welcome to Episode 144 of the Green Apple Podcast. This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who just like me is known for a hobby or a passion or maybe an interest outside of work, making them stand out like a green apple in a red apple world. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and”, as in my guest, Jennifer Warawa, is an accounting consultant “and” a foster parent. It is when people find out that she’s a foster parent that they have follow-up questions. Then that’s what creates deeper relationships. In the end, our hobbies and passions can actually make us better at our jobs but only if we let them.

I’ve got a quick favor to ask. If you like the show and are listening on iTunes or maybe your favorite Android app, don’t forget to hit subscribe so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. Because I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. This week is absolutely no different with my guest, Jennifer Warawa. She’s the executive vice president for Partners, Accountants and Alliances at Sage and was recently named one of the Most Powerful Women in Accounting by CPA Practice Advisor. I know you’re very, very busy so I’ll jump right into it Jennifer and say thanks so much for being with me today on the Green Apple Podcast.

Jennifer: Thanks for having me here. It’s exciting.

John: Oh, it’s so exciting. I’m double excited. We hung out at a couple of conferences now in Sage sessions and to have you on the show I’m super excited for that. I guess I gave everyone a little bit of an introduction to you but maybe in your own words a little bit of what you’re up to now and how you got there.

Jennifer: Yeah, sure. I head up Partners, Accountants and Alliances at Sage so all things to do with our Partner Ecosystem. I’ve been at Sage actually for ten and a half years. I don’t know how that happened it went really fast.

John: Wow!

Jennifer: I know. Isn’t that crazy? Prior to that, I had an accounting and consulting firm in Canada for 12 years. I was actually a Sage partner. I got to know Sage on the partner side, then came over and have been here in a variety of different roles but always serving accountants and partners in some capacity regardless of what role I’ve been in. But it’s been a really fast ten and a half years.

John: Yeah. Wow. That’s amazing. That’s crazy. Really, really cool. I guess you had your own firm up in Canada before that. That’s a lot of work there to run your own thing. That’s for sure.

Jennifer: Yeah. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. It was a great 12 years and we were growing. I had some great clients. People ask if I miss it. Of course, I miss the people and my clients. But this has also been a great ten years so I never look back. It’s great to see the best of both worlds.

John: Right. You came from the accounting side clearly. What made you want to go into accounting?

Jennifer: Well, it was a little bit of an accidental accountant to be honest. I was getting ready to decide what am I going to be taking at college. I was working at my dad’s business. His accountant quit. I’d been helping with a bunch of stuff. He said, “Hey, you know be great? You could take it over.” I was like, “If I’m going to take it over, I should probably learn what I’m doing. I should probably take that at college. That seems reasonable.” That’s the path that I went down.

The good news is I think when I took it I had a practical application while I was in school. You’re actually learning how it applies to a business real-time. It was real, practical, seeing it come to life and seen how the numbers impact to business. I always think that numbers tell a story and that’s what makes it really interesting.

John: Yeah. I know. You had basically the internship going on while you were in school.

Jennifer: Yes. The family labor internship just like it pays even less than the standard internship.

John: Right. Right. You get dinner and maybe a hug and you’re lucky. There you go.

Jennifer: Yeah. Luck, if you get those two things you’re lucky.

John: Yeah. That was a good day. That was a good day. Right?

Jennifer: That was a really good day. You’re right.

John: Yeah. Well, I probably would’ve learned accounting much better had I been able to do that instead. But yeah, that’s fantastic, really fantastic.

Jennifer: Made a big difference.

John: Yeah. For sure. For sure. When you’re not jaunting all over the world for Sage, what hobby, passion, interest occupies your time outside of work?

Jennifer: Probably what occupies a lot of my time these days is foster parenting.
John: Oh, nice!

Jennifer: My husband and I have been doing foster parenting for about four years. That is all encompassing outside of work. I love it. It’s my passion for sure.

John: Yeah. How do you get into that?

Jennifer: That is a great question. It’s was a long application process. We had just heard there was a nonprofit foster care agency in Atlanta that was turning away about 35 kids a week. That’s just one small little nonprofit. That’s not the facts or the entirety of all of the kids that are coming through the system. That was just one little agency.

We saw this problem when we talked about it before. We’ve actually never wanted kids or we never said, “Oh, we need to have our own kids.” But we like kids. We just weren’t ever saying that we needed our own. When we saw that need. We said, “Well, we could check this out.” We went to a one-night workshop where they walk you through what it looks like. We said, “Well, let’s get certified and see what happens.” It doesn’t mean that you have to take kids or doesn’t mean that you’re signing up for them. You’re going through and learning all about it and what that looks like and background checks and all that kind of stuff. Then off to the races.

John: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t mean that you have to do anything but before you know it “boom, boom, boom” here it is.

Jennifer: Before you know it, there are kids showing up on your doorstep. Then you’re like, “I guess they we’re doing something. Yes, we are.”

John: I guess we’re doing this. That’s really cool though. That’s really fantastic. You heard about this need and a bit of an issue that this small agency had and you’re like, “We can help.” That’s really cool.

Jennifer: We love it. It is such an eye-opening experience. Honestly, it gives you such a different perspective. I think sometimes work is fast-paced. We’re in technology, everything to do with accounting and this technology and it’s a fast paced, fast moving world. Everything seems to be piling up and moving at a crazy pace. This just reminds you that there’s other things in life that are critically important life-changing things that aren’t work-related.

It just keeps that in perspective and to say, “You’ve got a kid in your house who doesn’t get to see their parent.” That is way more impactful and life changing than some. It also just gives you a good perspective. Even though it can be chaotic, it also makes it calmer overall because it keeps everything in perspective.

John: Yeah. No, absolutely. I could totally understand that because you’re at work and maybe something doesn’t go quite right or whatever. Then you go home and you’re like, “Oh, I guess it’s not as big of a deal as I thought.”

Jennifer: Yeah. Just like, “Yeah, that was not a big deal.” Exactly.

John: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s fantastic. How long do these kids stay with you in a foster program?

Jennifer: It’s different with every child. In the state of Georgia, they say that they don’t want kids to be in foster care for longer than a year because it’s not good for the kids and it’s not good for the families. There’s too much uncertainty. They always try and reconcile them first with their families. If that doesn’t work, they want them to go into a permanent like adoptive placement after a year.

However, the first sibling set that we had, we had for two years. That was not a normal situation. That’s not normally how it goes but that’s how it worked. We’ve had kids for two years. Then we’ve had kids for two nights. Then some for two weeks. We actually just got a new placement this Monday so we now have a 13-year old boy.

John: Okay.

Jennifer: Yeah. For our first teenager.

John: Oh, there you go. Now, you guys have graduated up. All right.

Jennifer: Yeah. I don’t know exactly what that means but we’re learning everyday what it entails. But they’re really good kids there. I mean with challenging situations. I think it also gives you that perspective of how fortunate you are. I think sometimes we think of fortunate like, “Oh, these guys got to go on this trip to Europe. I didn’t. They’re so fortunate. They’re so lucky.” Meanwhile, there are people who just don’t have enough to eat. It’s not like they’re trying to go to Europe, they’re just trying to get food on the table or they’re just trying to find a job or they’re just trying to find housing. It just reminds you that what we consider fortunate is so different than so many people who struggle.

John: Yeah. Absolutely. I did big brothers, big sisters when I lived in Indianapolis. Actually, my little brother Jack, we were paired up for almost eight years I think, until I moved to New York, which is a very long time. He was a really smart kid just not in a great environment. It was a little bit frustrating because you take two steps forward. Then you drop them off. Then there’s one-step back when you pick them up and it’s like, “Ugh.” But there’s still progress and you see that. You see it when he holds the door for somebody when we’re going into the mall or when he lets someone go in front of him when we go to the restaurant. Little things like that you’re like, “Oh, okay. I guess I am making a difference.” Even if it isn’t a monumental thing where he’s going to become president of the United States or whatever. I know that’s true. You can never know.

Jennifer: You’re changing lives when you’re mentoring this young kid.

John: Exactly. Is this thing comes up in discussion at work at all?

Jennifer: Yeah. It does. I think it comes up. There’s so many life lessons that come from foster parenting in general. We’ve had kids that have come from homes. I was on a panel at the AICPA engage conference as an example. It was “Women in Tech” Panel. We were just talking about how important it is that you set an example that the girls and women could do anything. They can explore any job. They can try anything out.

I think for a lot of these kids they come from homes where they don’t know that that’s possible. When they come into our house, I’m going to work early. I’m coming home late. I’m traveling for business. My husband tends to be the person that’s there when they go to school and there when they get home. It’s opened their mind to like, “Wow. I could go and be the career woman or I could…” It really is a team game in the house. Lots of times they’ve never been exposed to that.

It comes up in your work whether it’s a Woman in Tech Panel or whatnot you’ll have those conversations. I think that just generally, people like to support these kids. People are more interested, “what’s it like, what’s required, I’ve thought about it.” Because lots of people ask, an actual question you ask when you meet someone is, “Do you have any kids?”

John: Right.

Jennifer: That comes up literally. They asked at all the time. It’s like, “Do you have any kids?” “No, we do foster parenting. We don’t have kids of our own.” Like, “Foster parenting? What’s that like?” That ends up being this natural conversation. I had a great conversation with someone from Gartner a month ago. Because they said, “Oh, do you have any kids?” just because we met for the first time. I said, “No, we do foster…” “My wife and I are looking at doing that. Would you mind if I ask you some question?” It is an interesting topic I guess that people are curious about.

John: Yeah. Yeah. Just tell them go to the workshop, get certified. You don’t have to, “What? There’s kids. There they are.”

Jennifer: There are kids waiting for you the minute that you’re done the workshop. That’s pretty much it.

John: No. That’s fantastic though. That’s really cool. It’s interesting how then there’s follow up questions. People are more interested in that and it really shows a side of you that they would have never known or anticipated maybe.

Jennifer: Generally, I know that some people really keep their personal life separate from their work life on social media. They have a pretty “I don’t want anyone to see what I’m doing outside.” I don’t think that way. I think the purpose of social is you get to know people. That’s how I’ve met people and built relationships with them, in some cases, all around the world in my career. It’s because we connect on social.

I post on my Facebook as an example, the first Christmas that we had, the kids that we ended up having for two years. They’d never got Christmas cards before. They never really celebrated Christmas. They’ve never had birthday parties. They just didn’t have the money for it. I said, “It’ll be really cool if anyone wants to send them Christmas card. That would be great.” They got about 130 Christmas cards all around the world. They’ve sent a little memento from Australia or the UK or South Africa.

The kids, when they got home from school that was the first thing they did. It was to go to the mailbox. They’re like, “How do all these people, how are they thinking about us?” Because they came from a home where they felt like no one was thinking about them, to all of a sudden, these people from all around the world sending them the Christmas cards. It was so special. It was a highlight of the day. They read every single one out loud.

I think it’s good when you can give your ecosystem a chance to participate and help make a difference as well. When I see people that always ask, “How are the kids? Do you have any kids right now?” What are they like? How old are they?” I think it also raises awareness, which is good.

John: Yeah. I love how you said that like your ecosystem because it’s all the people that are around you. It’s co-workers, it’s friends, it’s family. They’re all part of the same mix. If you open up a little bit, you let them participate and be a part of what your passion is, they see the excitement that you have for it. It’s cool that you let them in on it. They can share on the excitement.

Jennifer: Yeah. Absolutely.

John: I think that translates to really anybody no matter what they’re doing. You just got to let them in. What is it about you that was like, “Hey, I’m just going to share this?”

Jennifer: I think I’ve always been that way. I actually do think it’s a little bit cultural. I think in North America we’re more open to that. In the UK, there are typically more close. They really keep that separate like, “I’ll engage with work people on Twitter. But on Facebook, nope. That’s just for my personal life.” I really feel business is personal. I think you build relationships and the relationships are more than just business. If you’re building good relationships with people, they’re part of your life. You see them sometimes more than your family, right? You do let them in because they’re part of your life. They’re friends and they’re colleagues and they’re more than just partners to me. I think it was natural. I think that other countries are warming up. The UK starting to warm up a little bit, letting people in a little bit.

John: Yeah. Just a little bit. That’s really an interesting perspective because these are people that were around so much. Why not develop those relationships with them on a friendly level as opposed to just transactional basis. Because I believe that work is better.

Jennifer: It was so funny because we were at the AICPA engage conference and I was standing next to Amy Vetter. We were actually in this line. We’re getting these awards. I looked over and I said, “Oh, there’s your husband, Rob and your kids taking pictures.” Then all of a sudden, I’ve realized I’ve never met Rob. I already know them from her post on Facebook. I know all about them and their names. As soon as I saw them I was like, “Hey, look at that.” Then I was like, “Oh, wait a minute I’ve never met them.” We had this whole conversation about how you’ve never met certain people but you recognize them. You’re like, “How is Rob’s job going? How is this? How was that trip?” You’re like, “It’s weird.” You build relationships with people you’ve never even met. It’s crazy.

John: Yeah. Yeah. That’s really funny. That’s really funny. One thing that I wonder is what do you think it is that people don’t want to open up and share that they think that there isn’t a charge code for getting to know each other, things like that. Why is that our default mode for some reason for most people it seems?

Jennifer: Yeah. That is a really good question. Actually, geez, you ask some good questions John Garrett. But I don’t know if they just want to keep it separate, it’s that divide between work and personal life. They just don’t want in general. Forget about social media, they just don’t want that crossover. Some of the relationships, lifelong relationships that I’ve built have come from work. You meet some really amazing, really great people.

John: Totally, I did it on accident. When I started PWC, people are like, “Oh, what would you do this weekend?” “Oh, I drove to this city and did a weekend of comedy shows.” They’re like, “Wait, you did what?” It’s like, “Well, you asked. I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to tell you. I didn’t know.”

Jennifer: Yeah. I did work. I just worked on tax stuff.

John: Exactly.

Jennifer: That’s what I do.

John: I read Fast Biz all weekend long and just memorize the tax code. It’s like, “No, what do you…?” I have things outside of work that are also cool. I’m good at my job too. I wonder if part of it is vulnerability. People just don’t want to seem–

Jennifer: Let people in.

John: Yeah. Because I mean I don’t know.

Jennifer: Yeah. It could be.

John: So much over is riding on your salary, your mortgage and your lifestyle and everything. If you show any little bit of a chink in the armor thing, then it can all fall apart. It’s like, “No.” You and me and a lot of people that I’ve met on the Podcasts, it’s quite the opposite. You open up that little bit. Then all of a sudden it explodes even bigger in a good way.

Jennifer: I think that there’s so much discussion now about diversity. I think what we’re typically talking about diversity as being like, “We need more women in the tech industry.” That’s what people think of when they think of diversity but it’s not. It’s not just that. It’s diversity of perspectives and background and ages and what country did you come from and how did you grow up and what you do for fun and what your personal life looks like. With all of that, you bring a different perspective to business and to your work.

It is those vulnerabilities and your strengths that come from that that gives you a perspective at work that can lead to different results or different thinking or different ways that you solve problems. I think that diversity is still important but for some reason, lots of times, people don’t want to show their diversity. They want to show that they’re the same as everybody else, which as you said, that’s not what’s going to get you there, right? It is your diversity that makes you unique.”

John: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I love how you said that. It’s the vulnerabilities that actually become strengths because that’s your differentiator. It’s that. We all have the technical skills and the degrees and the certifications. Everybody’s got that. But not everybody has that end as a foster parent from Canada that had their own firm for 12 years. That’s only you so why not shine a light on that part that makes you different. Is there something that you did before the fostering parenting came around that you would talk about at work or share with clients and co-workers?

Jennifer: Generally, I think I liked helping people. I did volunteering. I did mentoring with youth in Atlanta. Actually, before we moved to Atlanta, we lived in Atlanta for almost nine years. I got involved in an organization called Southwest Atlanta Neighboring where something, a crazy percentage of all people that are in Atlanta jails come from this one zip code, which was crazy. The idea is to take kids, take young women that are in the zip code and show them that there is a different path for them. They don’t have to follow in their mother or father’s footsteps or their grandparents or their great grandparents. They can break the cycle and do something different.

I think it is that, for me when I look back and I think about Junior Achievement, all the things that I’ve been involved in, they’ve all been in some way about helping people realize that you can create a different path. It doesn’t need to be the path that you think or that your parents had. It can be something completely different. But you have to expose people to that and even get them thinking that that’s a possibility. Because they come from different backgrounds where they didn’t even know that was a possibility.

John: Right. Is there anything that you do specifically to get to know the people that you’re working around or working with? Things that maybe some of listeners can take away and be like, “Oh, maybe we can apply that at our place”? Or something that they could do?

Jennifer: I think one of the things to keep in mind is when it gets really busy sometimes you stop thinking about people’s personal sides. You just get so immersed in work that you forget these people have a new baby at home or they have life challenges. There’s all kinds of stuff going on in their life. I think it’s important just to take time and say, “How’s it going?” Like, “How is it going actually?” All the discussion around mental wellness, it’s just like checking in with people and saying, “How’s it going? It’s not just work. You’re not a machine, you’re a person. How is everything going in your life?” Every time we have a team outing, whether it’s a team dinner or lunch or whatever the case might be, we always go around the table and if you share something that no one in the room knows about you–

John: Oh, nice.

Jennifer: –it’s a little boring at the beginning because you can pretty much say anything that no one knows at. But after you’ve been together as a team or you’ve been on the team for a number of years, you’re really having to dig deep. You’re like, “Okay. These people know a lot about me. Now, I have to find some crazy story from when I was a teenager and I did X, Y or Z.” You really learn a lot about people. You learn what excites them and their passions and their background and what’s important to them. We’ve done that since the beginning. I’ve always really enjoyed that.

John: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the stuff that you remember. It’s like, “What’s that person’s job? I have no idea. But they rode a bicycle off a ramp, whatever.” It’s just like, “Wait. What?”

Jennifer: It’s like, “Tell me more about that I’m going to need to know the back-story on that.”

John: Exactly. Exactly. It creates that connection that’s totally different than when you walked into that meeting or that restaurant.

Jennifer: Absolutely.

John: It’s always a better connection.

Jennifer: Yeah.

John: It’s never worse, which is really neat. Yeah. That’s fantastic. The last thing I’ll ask is just do you have any words of encouragement to others that are listening where they think, “Well, my interest or passion has absolutely nothing to do with my job. Why should I share it?” We don’t get paid to socialize sort of a thing.

Jennifer: Yeah. I think that people have a lot of curiosity and a lot of interest around a number of topics that they have no experience in. By opening up and sharing with others, you’ll find that there are people who say, “Well, that’s really interesting. How do you get into that? I’ve thought about that myself.” I think about even my conversation with that gentleman from Gartner. It’s like him and his wife have been talking about foster parenting for a number of years. By me just sharing that just one sentence — I didn’t go into any detail — until he said, “Well, can I ask you some questions? Because we’ve been talking about it for a while.” “Absolutely. No problem.”

I think people have interests and passions and hobbies. They haven’t explored them or they’ve thought about them. Sharing, not only people get to know you and they build relationships. I think that generally people do business with people they like and trust. It’s hard to really trust someone unless you actually know them. Them knowing just the business side of you, that doesn’t build the same level of trust as them knowing all of you. They don’t need to know everything about you.

We had our partners in town. We had a Sage Foundation charity event and they did a golf day. It was just five minutes away from my house. I said after the tournament, “Why don’t you all come over my house?” They’re like, “There are 60 of us.” It was like, “Yeah. Come over and we’ll have dinner and we’ll just sit around.” It’s like, “Wow. Who has all these partners over to their house?” It’s like, “I think it’s so great because this is where I live. You guys are part of my life on a daily basis. I’d love for you to come over and just meet my husband and see our home.” I just think it builds a different level of trust and relationship that is a stronger foundation overall.

John: No. I agree. That’s fantastic.

Jennifer: I would just say sharing this, I don’t think there’s a lot of downside. It’s like, “How are you today?” “Well, let me tell you about my latest hobby.” “Okay. Well, I just ask how you were.” You have to, in moderation at the right time. Maybe not at the end of the month, at the end of the quarter, if you’re in sales, you’re going to start sharing your secrets at work. But I think it’s good and I think it’s just keeping an eye out for others as well that maybe want to share or express something. Sometimes you might want to say to colleagues, “Hey, do you want to grab lunch today?” Because you notice that they haven’t been themselves and you just want to check in. I think it’s good. I think it’s healthy to have conversations about life.

John: Yeah. It’s just genuinely caring about the people that are around you. When you ask them, “How is it going?” and checking in with them. It’s actually sitting down and paying attention and listening to that. People can see that. That’s fantastic. You know, really great, really great. Before I fly down to Atlanta and hang out with all your kids.

Jennifer: Hey, you’re welcome anytime.

John: Well, I have my 17 rapid-fire questions I like to run you through. This will be fun. Get to know Jennifer a little bit. Let me fire this thing up. First question, I’ll ask an easy one, favorite color?

Jennifer: Purple.

John: Okay. How about a least favorite color?

Jennifer: Yellow.

John: Yellow. Okay. All right. How about when it comes to computers, more PC or Mac?

Jennifer: I’m a PC person. I can’t even figure out a Mac.

John: When it comes to your mouse, are you left click or right click?

Jennifer: I am left.

John: Left.

Jennifer: Actually, I had to put my head out and go, “What am I?”

John: Making decisions. Let’s have one. How about a favorite adult beverage?

Jennifer: I like Summer. Maybe that’s it. Pretty open.

John: All right. How about more diamonds or pearls?

Jennifer: Oh, boy. Probably pearls.

John: Okay. All right. Now, when it comes to accounting software, cloud or desktop?

Jennifer: Good question. I can see the benefits of both but probably cloud.

John: Okay. All right. This is a very important one, toilet paper roll over or under?

Jennifer: Over. That’s not even a conversation to be had. You actually should be telling people it’s over.

John: Are you more oceans or mountains?

Jennifer: Oceans.

John: Okay. How about Sudoku or a crossword puzzle?

Jennifer: Neither.

John: Neither.

Jennifer: Wasn’t that terrible?

John: No, not at all. But you say, you’re more Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jennifer: Neither. It has to be real. No Star Trek or Star Wars.

John: Documentaries is pretty much where you’re at? Do you have a favorite number?

Jennifer: I like them all.

John: All right. All of them. You like them all. How about a favorite sports team?

Jennifer: I have many. I really loved Vegas Hockey this year.

John: All right. When you’re on an airplane, more window or aisle seat?

Jennifer: Always window.

John: Always. There you go. How about do you have a favorite actor or actress?

Jennifer: No.

John: No. All right. Two more. Two more. More early bird or a night owl?

Jennifer: Early bird, 4:00 am every day.

John: That’s early. You’re like a farmer. The last one, the favorite thing you own or the favorite thing you have?

Jennifer: Oh, wow. You know what? I would say is that when my parents first got married, they bought a dining room suite. When my mom passed away I got the dining room suite. I have pictures of my grandparents, my great grandparents, my parents, my sister’s wedding in all of this dining room table. Whenever I sit at it it’s like, “This is so full of family memories.” That’s probably one of my favorite things.

John: Wow. That’s really cool. That’s really cool. Well, thanks so much Jennifer for being with me today on the Green Apple Podcast.

Jennifer: Thank you. It was a blast. It was a great conversation. Thanks for having me.

John: Wow! That was really fun. I love that Jennifer said, “Your vulnerabilities are what give you a unique perspective at work. Because it’s the things that we think have nothing to do with our job that actually make the biggest impact. They make us human and make us relatable.” As Jennifer mentioned, create a stronger level of trust.

If you’d like to see some pictures of Jennifer and connect with her on social media, be sure to go to greenapplepodcast.com. While you’re on the page, please click that big green button and do the anonymous research survey about Corporate Culture. Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends, so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, which is to go out and be a green apple.