Welcome to Episode 293 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And”, those things above and beyond their technical skills, the things that actually differentiates you when you’re in the office.

I’m so excited to let everyone know that my book is being published in September. It’ll be available on Amazon and a few other websites, so check out whatsyourand.com for all the details. I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s listening to the show and changing the cultures where they work because of it, and I know the book will really help to spread this message.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Danielle Supkis Cheek. She’s a director at PKF Texas and a part time faculty at Rice University, and now she’s with me here today. Danielle, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Danielle: Thanks for having me.

John: Absolutely. This is going to be so awesome after we met at the TXCPA gathering in January.

Danielle: You were the emcee. I’ve never laughed that hard.

John: Right, well, thank you. Thank you so much.

Danielle: Yeah, you premiered your video.

John: The manager video, that was the world premiere was for the Texas Society CPAs. You guys laughed and then I put it on YouTube, so there we go. That’s how we test everything is Texas. If Texas likes it, then it’s good.

Danielle: We’re a good barometer.

John: Right, pretty much, pretty much. Yeah, but when we were hanging out, I never asked you any of these rapid fire questions that I probably should have, so here we go. First one, favorite color.

Danielle: Red.

John: Red, okay. How about a least favorite color?

Danielle: Brown.

John: Interesting, all right. How about more diamonds or pearls?

Danielle: Pearls, I’m wearing pearl earrings right now.

John: There you go, okay. How about a favorite actor or actress?

Danielle: I don’t know. These days I’ve been watching Some Good News with John, and I can’t say his last name to save my life.

John: John Krasinski?

Danielle: Thank you.

John: Yeah.

Danielle: Right now, it’s one of those ones that’s moving all around. Of course, you always love the Brad Pitts of the world as well and Angelina Jolies, but right now, let’s go with John — I can’t. You’re going to have to help me with the last name.

John: Krasinski.

Danielle: Thank you.

John: That’s what it is for us anyway. That’s what we’re going to say. I’m pretty positive. That’s an excellent pick. He’s in a lot of stuff, really versatile too.

Danielle: The Jack Ryan thing was good.

John: Yeah. How about, would you say you’re more early bird or night owl?

Danielle: It used to be early bird, but now it is night owl, the way kids’ bedtime works and how you have to go back to work after bedtime.

John: Oh, yeah. How about more pens or pencils?

Danielle: Pen.

John: Pen, no mistakes, I like that.

Danielle: No mistakes, but I do like a good, really thick Sharpie, like the chisel tip Sharpie?

John: Oh, yeah.

Danielle: Crossing out the To Do List, crossing out with the —

John: Exactly. That’s awesome. How about when it comes to puzzles, more Sudoku or crossword?

Danielle: Sudoku.

John: Okay.

Danielle: I am not a letters person. I’m a numbers person all day long.

John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. How about tea or sweet tea?

Danielle: Tea.

John: Tea, yeah, yeah. To some people, it’s the same, but it’s definitely different. How about do you have a favorite number?

Danielle: Ten.

John: Is there a reason?

Danielle: Yeah, I like the binary of it, ones and zeros, and so actually my wedding cake was all ones and zeros. We got married on 10-10-10 at 10:10 am.

John: Oh, my goodness, that’s incredible.

Danielle: For the super nerds, 10-10-10 is actually binary for 42 which is Hitchhiker’s Guide’s, ultimate answer. You didn’t realize how nerdy I was, did you?

John: Mind blown right now. I need to sit down. This is amazing.

Danielle: Well, you’re probably already seated.

John: Yeah, yeah. No, you were ready, holy cow. Some people are like, well, I don’t know. It’s just a number. It’s like, nope, I’ve done all the thinking behind it.

Danielle: Well, ten is brilliant. If somebody is base 12, oh, and time being, well, whatever time is because it keeps moving on.

John: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. How about a favorite Disney character?

Danielle: Disney’s been doing a better job these days of having good female characters and female role models. When I was a kid, we actually weren’t allowed to watch a lot of the Disney movies because they had weaker female role models. The only one we were really allowed to watch was Mulan. I think they’re remaking it now too.

John: Oh, interesting, yeah, yeah. I mean, they might as well. They’re remaking everything, right?

Danielle: Yeah. So, let’s go with Mulan because that’s the childhood memory.

John: There you go, absolutely. How about more cats or dogs?

Danielle: Dogs.

John: How about balance sheet or income statement?

Danielle: Balance Sheet.

John: Yeah.

Danielle: I know you hate cash flow, but I’m a cash flow fan. I want to see liquidity, so I’m looking at balance sheet and cash flow before I’m looking at margin analysis and all that kind of stuff because I don’t — you can be profitable, but if you’re going to go out of business next week, what’s the profits for?

John: Right, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I just don’t like cash flow because I don’t know how to do it. That’s pretty much why. Favorite movie of all time.

Danielle: Okay, despite the slight inaccuracies, I’m going to go with The Accountant mainly because it made accountants seem cool. Because I’m a forensic accountant, oh, my god, people think I have the coolest job now because of that movie, just, wow, cool.

John: And that you’re a little bit on the spectrum like Ben Affleck’s character, and an M16 in all the closets

Danielle: Aren’t we all though?

John: Pretty much.

Danielle: I actually, in my class, actually make the students, when I taught Audit, they had to watch the movie, and they had quiz questions that they had to answer about how they’d design audit procedures to detect the fraud, and how they’d investigate the fraud, and did he ask for the right documents, and did he do the analysis correctly? My husband said I ruined the movie for all my students. They got to watch instead of going to class, so I thought it was okay.

John: Yeah, totally. They’re like, you’re the coolest teacher ever. I get to watch a movie and get a grade. Yeah, what is this, high school all over again? That’s awesome.

Danielle: It actually took some thought and analysis, though. They were hard questions.

John: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt because now you’d have to watch it again and be like, oh, really? I wasn’t even paying attention to that part. Yeah, now it’s like, oh, man. All right, four more, four more.

Danielle: Okay.

John: How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Danielle: I’m not a huge one into either but I’d go with Trek over Wars. My dad was a Trekkie, so, again, childhood memories. My dad still does live long and prosper hand signal to everybody.

John: There you go, all right. So, it’s a little bit double-edged sword on that one. How about your computer, more of a PC or a Mac?

Danielle: Is that a question? I mean, PC. What accountant do you know that uses a Mac? My clients use them but…

John: Right.

John: Right, I really don’t. How about on your mouse, right click or left click?

Danielle: For just in general, like left clicking your normal stuff?

John: Yeah.

Danielle: Yeah, left click.

John: Left click, making decisions. Boom, there it is. The last one, favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Danielle: Most everything can be replaced, so I don’t really worry about material things very much except for I go with — my childhood teddy bear, I still have, so, again, fun childhood memories with the teddy bear, and it’s probably the few things that can’t be replaced.

John: That’s an excellent answer.

Danielle: His name was Bear Bear. It was very creative.

John: Bear Bear.

Danielle: Bear Bear, two bears. My other dog was named Ruff Ruff.

John: Well, that’s better than Dog Dog. It’s alright. That’s very cool. So, yeah, so let’s talk sewing. Is that something that you also started in childhood that brings you back to those times?

Danielle: Yeah. Maybe that’s why I’m the mindset of childhood memories. My grandfather was actually a tailor before he went to NASA.

John: Oh, wow.

Danielle: So, as part of being kids, my grandmother said we all had to learn how to sew. So, we all learned how to sew as little kids, learned how to thread needles, how to use a sewing machine, how to work all the major components of a sewing machine, and my dad got us a sewing machine for our house so that we could practice at home because they were kind of serious about it.

One grandfather turned down a spot in the NBA to go work at NASA, and the other grandfather was a tailor and then after the war, went to NASA in Materials Sciences and left as chief of Crew Systems when he retired in the Gemini and Apollo years. That’s how my parents met, so they took NASA and everything related to Materials Science very seriously. That’s when I learned how to sew.

John: Holy cow, that’s incredible. Yeah, that’s so cool. For most kids, where it’s like piano where you have to practice, but you had a sewing machine where it’s like you have to spend time practicing and putting in the hours.

Danielle: Well, you didn’t have — it wasn’t that because that’s like a forced creativity type of thing. It wasn’t that. It was more of, here’s a sewing machine, play around with it, learn how to do stuff.

John: There you go.

Danielle: I also was not forced, but they sent me to piano lessons. I stunk really hardcore, especially since my grandmother was an amazing pianist like, crazy. So, you somehow hit a nerve because my mother was devastated that I didn’t become a pianist because I have massive man hands that are huge, and I can really have a large spread on a piano. I’m pretty much tone deaf.

John: So back to the sewing where you’re amazing.

Danielle: The only thing I really remember making when I was a kid that wasn’t just a little side thing was a little harness for Bear Bear actually. There was a legit harness. It had the tubular nylon. It had the shoulder straps. Because I guess Bear Bear is not old enough to have the — and he doesn’t have the right hip structure to hold the proper harness, so I put the shoulder straps and had the off-color stitching so you could always tell if there was a problem. He had his little rope. I did a proper figure eight knot. I was into rock climbing as a kid too, and so I built him a little harness so he could go rock climbing on the wall, and built up a whole contraption on the wall.

John: Yeah, but I mean, the detail that goes into that. It’s not a human-sized harness, it’s for Bear Bear, so it’s much smaller. I guess when you’re a kid, you have smaller hands, but the attention to detail on that has to be so much more than creating a bigger one.

Danielle: It wasn’t. I was a little kid. It was…

John: I’m still impressed. I would have ended up with a sewing needle through my finger, from the machine. It’s like, why does John have only nine fingers? Sewing incident. That’s really cool. Then as you grew up, you just stayed with it?

Danielle: Not at all. I completely didn’t do it until — actually, I put down the sewing machine for probably 15-something years. I didn’t do anything sewing-related except for like minor repairs to something, like mending type stuff. So I had the sewing machine for mending purposes because it’s useful for that.

It was when I was at a firm and I was not getting the creative outlet from what I was doing, the ultimate product is a, especially when paperless, it is a one piece of paper digital that you package up a nice PDF, and here is the summation of four months’ worth of work is one page, I guess.

John: Right, right.

Danielle: Or maybe the whole packet, and you’re like, wow, that doesn’t feel like I’ve had — I was missing that tangible productivity, and now I have it in my job, but when I picked up sewing again was actually when I was using that creative outlet.

John: That’s interesting. Was it the first thing you went back to? Or did you just think of, well, what can I do that can give me some creative outlet?

Danielle: It was just by happenstance, actually. My husband’s cousin is a big sewer as well. When I started dating my husband, she was a big sewer, and I was like, oh, well, I can sew too. So we just did a couple projects together. She was much better than I was and still is better than I am, but I just started, well, I can do that too, and just picked up a couple projects and then realized and kind of re-found it and just happened back into it. It’s been nonstop since.

John: Yeah. Was there a change in just your outlook and just the feeling that it gave you that you were like, oh, this is something that I was missing?

Danielle: Yeah, it was really, I just needed that build something with my hands kind of creativity, and thinking through albums and the puzzles and not just the routine ticking and tying and reviewing the reports and the mechanics. I needed something outside of that traditional mechanical work, exercise the creativity muscle in my brain.

John: Yeah, and that sounds like it’s a skill that translates to work, especially now with the forensic stuff that you do.

Danielle: It does. I get the creativity in what I do at work now, so that’s nice. I’m not missing the fulfillment on the creativity side of the day to day job, but I think it also helps when you have creativity in everything you do, and you think through things in a slightly different way. Because for sewing, you have to know so many steps ahead because you have to do things not in the order in which it looks like finished product. You deconstruct, in effect. If you make a mistake early on, you have to undo a lot of work.

I don’t know if you’ve ever sat there with a stitch ripper all day long and these itty-bitty, little stitches, and trying to take out — it takes a little patience. Sometimes I just want to cut it all off and start over from scratch and cut out new fabric, but sometimes I don’t have enough fabric to do that you really have to spend the time to do it. You need to think through the creative process and have to almost really structure out the creative process because you can’t just end up with the end result. People like our woodworker, it’s very hard to anybody that does woodworking on that you have to think through all those little steps.

John: Yeah, or even putting together something from IKEA, let’s say. All of a sudden you get to the end, you’re like, I was supposed to put this in first? No!

Danielle: You didn’t read the instructions, did you?

John: That’s right.

Danielle: That’s the problem. You didn’t read the instructions.

John: Right, just look at the picture and put it together. That’s really cool though, that something that you did as a child that fuels your creative side, now also, inadvertently, fuels your professional side as well, which is a neat thing. I think a lot of people disregard how hobbies or outside of work interest is just a side thing, but it clearly makes you better at your job by the way you look at things. Is this something that you talk about at work?

Danielle: I don’t go around screaming it down the halls or anything.

John: Right.

Danielle: But when people start talking about hobbies, it’s not usually the first one to come up. Usually I’m collecting information about other people and what are their hobbies and, and doing my best to relate to others because it’s about making other people feel comfortable around me. When it comes to my turn, and I say that I sew, usually I get a couple of funny faces because I don’t fit the stereotypical image of a grandmother sewing or something like that, and quilting.

John: Right, right. I didn’t know people did that anymore.

Danielle: I know.

John: Like, what?

Danielle: It’s not simply a lost art. Every year, I go to the big quilting festival in Houston. It’s like the second largest conference in town. Everyone thinks it’s crazy that I take a day of PTO to go to the quilting festival.

John: That’s awesome though. How cool is that? Of course. What else are you going to use PTO for, sitting around?

Danielle: Yeah. I have a great time. You have people come in. You have good old girls time. It’s a grand old time. I don’t need the electric scooter. I’m good to go.

John: Right.

Danielle: I’m pretty agile. What’s interesting right now is, because I’ve talked about it in a limited scale, the people that know me know that I do it, but because the weekend the CDC came out with the mask order, I got blown up. I’ve never been so popular in my life because apparently you want a a CPA that can sew and definitely know the PPP program really well now too, and that’s apparently a difficult thing to do.

John: You’re the queen of the world.

Danielle: I have never been so popular in my life. It was a lot of late nights of fulfilling friend and family mask orders and somehow consulting on PPP around the clock as well because friends and family and clients, everybody needed assistance.

John: It was so cool after we hung out at the TXCPA event, and then you sent me a luggage tag that you sewed. It’s legit, all out, I want to say quilted, but it had the ampersand. It seemed fancy. I was like, what? It’s carry-on only because I don’t want airlines touching this.

Danielle: If it ever gets destroyed, I’ll make you a new one. I have more of that amp fabric, the little ampersand fabric. When I saw your new logo, I was like, oh, man, I have that, and then of course, how to add the green from the green apple piece of it.

John: No, it was awesome. Thank you. No, it was so cool, and it’s just such a cool hobby to have that’s unique. Now, like you said, you’re everyone’s best friend.

Danielle: Actually, when you’re making client gifts, all my clients, I made the gift for the luggage tag, like a majors and embroidered their name on it and stuff.

John: Yeah. How cool is that when a client gets that? Anyone could give them the accounting work, really, but it comes with something that I made that I’m really passionate about. That’s a next level of client service there and also just shows that you care a little bit. I think that that’s a neat thing. Were clients receptive?

Danielle: I think so. They seem to like it. If we put their name on it and put our number on the fabric, hopefully they’ll think of us.

John: Right, absolutely. I think that’s such a cool thing. Have you come across the other sewers in the accounting space or in your corporate life?

Danielle: Yes, actually I have, yeah. Every now and then, we talk shop. My schedule is pretty hectic, day to day, so there’s usually more accounting shop talk then sewing shop talk. There’s also, you probably don’t know this, but a bunch of different types of sewing. I don’t do fashion sewing. I do more crafts sewing. So it depends what kind of sewing.

John: Yeah, yeah. The extent that I know is from those runway shows that are on accidentally when my wife’s watching.

Danielle: Yeah, I watch those, but that’s not the kind of sewing I do. I like little stuff, not the big stuff that you wear, so bags and the luggage tags and quilting.

John: I feel like there’s bear harnesses that are coming up soon. I feel like that’s coming back.

Danielle: It’s not appropriate but okay.

John: For Bear Bear.

Danielle: For Bear Bear.

John: Yeah. I love how you said earlier how it’s more of you finding out about someone else. How does that conversation go? Because a lot of people are hesitant to share what they love to do, but I love how you approach it as more of I’m trying to find out about them and then I guess it makes it okay then for you to the share, I guess, type of thing.

Danielle: I think genuine interest and curiosity in what drives somebody and what makes them tick, what are they passionate about, is important. It shows the caringness. It shows we can build the relationships and rapport outside of just whatever client service component that we’re working on, and it helps also give me — because I have a fairly large breadth of miscellaneous random knowledge on things, I really like to find out what kind of hobbies they’re into and then I can adapt how I present information. Because accounting can get really complicated, so if I know what hobby they’re used to, I can parse the data in something that it relates to them, either use metaphors or analogies or examples.

If I know somebody that’s into woodworking or construction, I can start relating it to, okay, house foundation and this is how it gets built up, and this is how accounting builds up these different pieces. So, it’s a way for me to try to more effectively communicate really technical, weird concepts that, they don’t care about the debits and credits, they care about how it impacts them, but they need to know enough about what the process is to understand that they can rely on the end result or whatever is the issue. So, to really find a way to effectively communicate through their hobbies or through their interests or through their base level of knowledge.

John: That’s awesome. Because when it comes to the the X’s and O’s, and the technical skills, stuff that we have to be good at to do our jobs, that’s important, but it’s not important if you’re unable to communicate that to the other side. That doesn’t always mean that you have to use the big fancy words, but I love how you’re putting it into terms that they’ll understand and then to things that they’re passionate about. Because you know Jeopardy-level knowledge of random stuff, it’s like, oh, well, I know enough about that to tell you — use the words.

Danielle: Well, I suck at Jeopardy. I’m not good at general knowledge. I’m pretty bad at pop culture knowledge, but miscellaneous hobbies, I’m pretty good.

John: There you go, there you go. Perfect. From your career, have you been places where they’ve encouraged that sharing the hobbies or talking about sewing or things like that? Because it differs, for whatever reason, depending on, is it more of a top down thing, you think? Or is it just on the individual to create their little circle themselves?

Danielle: I think it’s a little bit of both, and I think it’s a little bit about the culture that you’re working in. If you have a very traditionalist culture that people don’t like to share anything about outside of work and keep everything private, I think you can find ways to appropriately discuss with your circle of friends and closer knit group of peers and maybe direct supervisors and start building your cone of relationships within the organization and start building that rapport. I see it as part of rapport-building because you’re letting them see some of your vulnerability, and seeing some of yourself so that you’re going to build a strong connection with somebody, at least when it’s top down, and you get that whole organizational level feel. It doesn’t have to always be that way, and talking about yourself, not in an inappropriate way, of course, but in an appropriate and the right context, all those different qualifiers —

John: Not attention-seeking but just, this is who I am and what I love to do outside of work.

Danielle: There’s always a professional way to do it, and you can start just building rapport, even in the organizations that are traditionalist mindset that you don’t typically talk about personal things.

John: Right. Do you feel that when you’re able to share those things with people that that relationship is obviously different, but maybe better?

Danielle: I think so. I think you get that personal touch and be able to see something of that person that you didn’t see before. You get another dimension of that person. Honestly, I don’t mind being the butt of jokes sometimes, and when it’s sewing, a lot of people really do laugh at me for a second. I don’t know if they’re laughing at me or with me.

John: They’re crazy.

Danielle: It’s such a disconnect from my work, professional work. I don’t see it as a major disconnect, but it’s the appearance of I don’t fit the stereotype. Again, I don’t fit the accountant stereotype that people try to label anyway. I hope that The Accountant broke some of those, but it’s just I’m not fitting their image and mold of me. So when I talk about sewing and stuff, it breaks some of that mold which also then breaks some of those stereotypes and just have normal relationship rather than a stuffier one sometimes.

John: That’s fantastic. Because in doing all these interviews, I found that the stereotype is wrong anyway. There’s not one right way to be an accountant, a lawyer, an architect, an engineer. There’s so many different varieties and so many different kinds that if you try to be one, you’re not going to be very good at it because you’re not being you.

Danielle: Yeah.

John: That’s the thing that blows my mind is when people are like, well, you don’t seem like an accountant. I’m like, that’s the most insulting thing you could say out loud. What did you think? What is wrong with you? It’s crazy. But I love how it’s just sharing a little bit of yourself and creating those deeper relationships. It was like when that luggage tag arrived, and it was the ampersand; it wasn’t just a random, whatever color luggage tag. It was like, no, no, I thought this through. It’s that level of detail that’s really cool, and then it makes an impact. Where, if it’s just something random, it’s neat, but when you do that for clients and people that you’re around, it shows you care.

Danielle: I have a bad habit of buying fabric that reminds me of people or things that I’m like, oh, this pattern is perfect for this. Then, of course, I always get backlogged. The stack, off-screen right now, of my sewing table of what needs to be sewn is actually quite tall. I have sections in my fabric organizer of all the family members, of this is fabric that I know this person would like, and I remember, some whatever family event, to bring it out and make them something.

John: That’s so cool.

Danielle: Because that fabric really does have that connection.

John: Yeah, yeah, because you can feel it, and everything’s got a different texture, and the reason behind why you’re doing it, I just think it’s fantastic. It really does play into the accounting side of you, for sure. Do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that thinks that they have a hobby that has nothing to do with their job?

Danielle: Do it anyway.

John: Do it anyway. There you go.

Danielle: Get your fulfillment, whatever makes you happy and fulfilled, and do it.

John: Because you’re not doing it for everyone else, you’re doing it for yourself.

Danielle: Yup.

John: If everyone else likes it, then that’s great, but if they don’t, well, I didn’t ask, pretty much. You asked me and then I told you what I do.

Danielle: You know, these days, you need to make sure you practice some kind of self-care. For a lot of people, the hobby is the self-care that keeps them able to focus at work because they have an outlet that takes them off work. These days in particular, people are super stressed out, and it’s hard to find time to get your brain to turn off. I’ve done a lot of work from home at past firms, and it’s hard when you don’t ever — there’s no way to switch between gears. For a lot of people, that hobby is really the switching gears and what helps clear their mind so they can focus when it’s time to focus.

John: I love that. That’s awesome. Yeah, because it can’t be all work all the time, despite what your charge coach say.

Danielle: You’re talking to a workaholic too.

John: Yeah, but even you say, it can’t be all work all the time.

Danielle: Yeah.

John: That’s like, okay. That’s impressive. Yeah, you have to turn the brain off sometimes and you have to distract in order to come back stronger. That’s awesome, very cool. Well, this has been so much fun, Danielle. Before I wrap this up, it’s only fair that I allow you to now be the host of the show, and we turn the table and let you rapid fire question me since I so rudely started out peppering you with questions. So, you’re the host.

Danielle: Okay, I only have two. I know you like to travel a lot or traveled a lot, so, window or aisle.

John: I’m an aisle guy only because if I have to get up, and also it gives me a little bit of legroom, psychologically, because the planes curve a little bit sometimes. Although I’m usually asleep the whole time anyway, so I should probably sit in the window, but I’m an aisle guy, for sure.

Danielle: Okay, and I know how much you love cash flow, so, direct or indirect.

John: I’m not even positive what that means anymore, but direct sounds good. I don’t know. Indirect sounds shady. It’s like not the real number. I don’t know, but that was more for the casual listeners. All the accountants are like, oh, man, he must be 500 hours behind on CPE, and you would be correct. You would be correct. I should just go and get my degree again, if I wanted to go back into it again, but no one’s going to bring me back for that. So, I’m going to go direct all the way, of course. Is that even a question?

Danielle: You’re going to agree with Fazio on some of this one.

John: My Accounting 101 teacher right now is rolling over in her bed.

John: Pretty much like, he never learned it, did he? No, I didn’t, Sue Patella, so there you go, all right. Thank you so much, Danielle, this has been so much fun, and thanks for taking time to be a part of What’s Your “And”?

Danielle: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

John: Yeah, and everyone listening, if you want to see some pictures of Danielle’s creations or maybe connect with her on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there, and while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.

So thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.