Welcome to Episode 529 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. And each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby, or a passion, or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and.” For instance, who else are you beyond the job title?

And I want to make a quick plug here for globaldogart.com. Last year, Michael Puck was on the show, and his “and” was dog photography. And he wanted me to let you know that dogs foster social connection and pictures of them help promote trusting relationships in business settings. And researchers also confirmed that pictures of dogs increase our well-being and reduce stress. And so, he teamed up with other dog photographers all over the world to create globaldogart.com. And you can bring in those pictures into your home or your business settings. And 100% of the proceeds go to save 1 million dogs by 2030. So check out globaldogart.com.

And while you’re on the internet, check out whatsyourand.com. And the book is out there on Amazon, and Barnes & Noble, Indigo, Bookshop, and a few other websites. So check out those links. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, Elizabeth Coo. She’s a senior litigation associate at Gursey | Schneider in Los Angeles, and the host of the Entry Level Adulting podcast. And now, she’s with me here today. Elizabeth, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Elizabeth: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

John: Oh, this is gonna be great. This is like entry level, teenager level, my podcast. So feel like it’s pre-adult compared to your show. So this is gonna be super, super fun.

Elizabeth: Probably. Probably.

John: Super, super fun. But I love to have rapid-fire questions up front just to get to know Elizabeth on another level here. And so, I’ll start you off maybe an easy one. Star Wars or Star Trek?

Elizabeth: So I’m actually more of a Trekker.

John: Okay. No problem.

Elizabeth: Not a Star Wars fan.

John: No problem at all.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I’m a Star Trek fan.

John: Absolutely. They’re people too, you know. They’re people too.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

John: They’re not Klingons, but they’re people. So it’s all good.

Elizabeth: They’re people. Sure.

John: It’s all good. Absolutely. Absolutely. How about a favorite animal? Any animal at all?

Elizabeth: Dog. Hands down.

John: Okay. Okay. Oh, well, globaldogart.com. There we go. Perfect.

Elizabeth: I know, exactly. I was like “Yes, I gotta check it out.” Absolutely.

John: There you go. There you go. How about when it comes to puzzles, Sudoku, crossword, or a jigsaw puzzle?

Elizabeth: Jigsaw.

John: Jigsaw. Okay. All right.

Elizabeth: I am a Wordle. I have been playing Wordle like every single day ever since it came out.

John: Okay.

Elizabeth: Yup.

John: Yeah.

Elizabeth: I dunno where that falls into the equation.

John: No, Wordle definitely counts. Wordle is a puzzle of some sort, so that definitely counts. Absolutely. How about your computer? Are you a PC or a Mac?

Elizabeth: I am a Mac girl. But it’s funny because for work, I tend to prefer PC.

John: Sure. Nice. A little ambidextrous there. I’m impressed.

Elizabeth: A bit there. Yeah.

John: Nice.

Elizabeth: Just a smidge.

John: Okay. Okay. How about a favorite color?

Elizabeth: Ooh, probably green.

John: Green. Solid. Nice. Yeah.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

John: How about a least favorite color?

Elizabeth: Probably also a shade of green.

John: Okay. We’re gonna have to narrow this down now.

Elizabeth: Yes. I like like foresty greens and—

John: Okay, so the darker.

Elizabeth: …soothing green.

John: Okay.

Elizabeth: But then I don’t like kind of the yellowy-er kind of like puke greens.

John: Ah, yeah. Okay. Fair enough.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

John: Yeah. Okay. I can get behind that. All right. All right. How about more talk or text?

Elizabeth: Talk. Oh, absolutely. Hands down. I am a terrible texter.

John: That’s awesome. That’s very funny. That’s hilarious.

Elizabeth: I know. I’m a bit of an old soul in that sense.

John: No, no, I love it. That’s great. That’s great. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Elizabeth: Oh, that’s too hard. I can’t. I’ll pass on that one.

John: All of them.

Elizabeth: It’s too many.

John: Right.

Elizabeth: Too many.

John: Okay.

Elizabeth: Way too many.

John: Okay. All right. Fair enough, fair enough. How about more heels or flats?

Elizabeth: Flats. I would love to say heels. I love the way I look in heels, but flats are just way more comfortable.

John: And more practical in everything. Yeah. Okay.

Elizabeth: Yes.

John: Fair enough. Fair enough. How about oceans or mountains?

Elizabeth: You’re like talking about two of my loves here.

John: Okay. Well, we could have oceans into the mountains, which is why you’re in California probably.

Elizabeth: But what I really want is a mountain on the ocean. That’s what I want.

John: Oh, so like a Hawaiian island maybe.

Elizabeth: Yes. Precisely that.

John: Okay. Okay. There we go. We’ll take it. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. You flipped it where it’s a mountain in the ocean. Yeah. ‘Cause normally it’s the other way around. Okay. I like that. I like that. I’m an ice cream junkie. Ice cream in a cup or a cone?

Elizabeth: I usually go cup.

John: Yeah, I’m the same.

Elizabeth: I feel like you get more ice cream that way.

John: You totally do. You totally do.

Elizabeth: I’m a bit of a purist.

John: It’s a trick. It’s a trick. And you know what you can do? You can sweet talk the person into giving you the cone on top so you get both.

Elizabeth: Yes. Exactly.

John: That’s what I do.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

John: So how about a favorite adult beverage?

Elizabeth: Currently, the Dirty Shirley. And that is extremely popular, but I would just like to say that I liked it before it was trending.

John: Right. Okay. I’ll believe you on that one. I’ll believe you on that one.

Elizabeth: I promise I didn’t just make that my drink of the summer.

John: Here you go. There you go. Yeah. How about since you got the CPA balance sheet or income statement?

Elizabeth: Oh, income statements.

John: Income statement. Okay. There you go.

Elizabeth: Yes.

John: Yeah. Show me the dollars. There we go. Cash flow.

Elizabeth: Show me the flow.

John: Yup. There you go. How about favorite season? Summer, winter, spring, or fall?

Elizabeth: Summer. Oh, I’m a summer girl. Hands down. I’m in California for a reason.

John: Right. There you go. There you go. Three more. How about a favorite number?

Elizabeth: Oh, 7.

John: 7?

Elizabeth: I know that’s common.

John: No. Is there a reason?

Elizabeth: It’s complete. It’s complete.

John: Okay. There you go.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

John: I like it. There you go. How about when it comes to books? Audio version, e-Book, real book?

Elizabeth: I mean, I love a real book. But to be honest, I do most of my reading on e-Books.

John: Okay. All right. Yeah. No. Well, I mean, it’s just you can carry more in one gadget. Yeah.

Elizabeth: Practically speaking, it’s easier, but I’m a total sucker for like that book smell. Like the real book smell.

John: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth: That’s the best.

John: Yeah. Really is. No, I’m the same. I’m the same. And a favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Elizabeth: Favorite thing I own would probably be either my tea maker or a cookbook I have from my grandpa’s like small town in Pennsylvania.

John: Oh, nice.

Elizabeth: It that’s local cookbook with all the church women’s recipes for all the right cookies. Cookies are really big in Western Pennsylvania and stuff like that. Like all the good desserts. Those like German immigrant desserts.

John: Nice.

Elizabeth: It’s amazing.

John: Oh, man, I’m starving right now just hearing this.

Elizabeth: I know. I know.

John: That’s so good. So good. Those are awesome. That’s very cool. Very, very cool. So let’s talk podcasting, which is very meta of us to be on a podcast.

Elizabeth: It is. It is.

John: Talking about making a podcast. I just realized this. We’re in the matrix, but yeah. How did you get started?

Elizabeth: That’s a great question. So I love that I’m talking to someone who’s even been doing podcasting longer than me because as I’m sure you can relate to so much of this. You walk into it backwards, right?

John: Right.

Elizabeth: So what happened was I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life. I just went to business school and thought I would end up in marketing, realized that was not for me.

John: Okay.

Elizabeth: And I couldn’t care less about marketing. And so then, I did an accounting class and I kind of was good at it. And so, I said I guess I’ll just do this, which is pretty much every accounting major that you probably ever met. Like there’s a reason you have so many accountants on this show, John. Like all of us were like we don’t really know how we got here, but we’re just kinda here making a living. And I guess we’ll just do something on the side.

John: Right. There you go.

Elizabeth: And that is literally every accounting major. And so, what happened, I was like the only one of my friends that went to business school. And so, I had all this sort of accumulated knowledge that I started taking for granted once we graduated, kind of how to budget and taxes, all these boring adult things that everybody says they wishes got taught in school and then we didn’t. I had kind of gotten some of that knowledge. Plus, my parents told me about stuff as well. And so, I had all this knowledge and then I’m also a very creative person. Right? So I’m sitting on all this knowledge and I, for fun, made a voice acting demo.

John: Yeah, okay.

Elizabeth: A kid’s voice acting demo.

John: Yeah.

Elizabeth: And so, I learned through that process how to use voiceover equipment and what softwares to use, how to use the microphone to your advantage to be a proper voice artist and stuff. And so, I’m combining— I’m staying here. I’m like “How can I combine this voiceover knowledge I’ve just learned and now all this business knowledge I’ve just learned?” And out of that was basically birthed the Entry Level Adulting Podcast. I said, “Why don’t I just make a podcast?”

John: Yeah, I love it.

Elizabeth: Like many people said in the pandemic. And so, that’s really how I got started, was I had these sort of two creative pursuits, two different knowledge bases that I said “Let me just combine them and make them into something useful.”

John: That’s fantastic. That’s so great. Yeah. Absolutely. And I mean, to have the knowledge and to share it, and then you can share it with so many more people than just like the circle that you see physically.

Elizabeth: That’s exactly it. I kept having these conversations with my friends and them just asking me similar questions. And I said, “I just wish there was a resource I could just point my friends to and say “Hey, go listen to this. This is everything that I would tell you in this conversation. You can just go listen to that here.” And like you said, help other people as well and reach even a broader audience than the people that would ask me. So that’s really how I got into it. That’s what—

John: That’s great.

Elizabeth: …gave birth to the idea.

John: Yeah. Yeah. And then you get the one friend that’s like “Yeah, I don’t have time to listen to your pod. Like just tell me. I’m right here.” You know? And you’re like “Then you’re not my friend. We’re not friends anymore. Done. You’re out.” Get out type of thing.

Elizabeth: I know.

John: Yeah. No, I love it.

Elizabeth: There’s always one.

John: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That’s awesome. And so, do you have like a favorite memory from doing this or something that you’ve discovered from doing the podcast?

Elizabeth: You know, I think my favorite memories, and what my favorite thing about it currently going forward has been, is just it’s not just me doing it. I have a whole team of people now that are helping me out. And I got a co-host, you know. And then, like I said, I learned very quickly marketing is not for me. So I found one of my friends that marketing was for her. And so, now, I’ve got a co-host and then we’ve got a social media manager who—

John: Great.

Elizabeth: Really the one running the show to be perfectly frank. She’s the one that keeps us in line. And then my other friend, she’s a graphic artist. Graphic designer.

John: There you go.

Elizabeth: And you know, what a fabulous way to build her portfolio. And I said, “I can’t pay any of you. I’m so sorry, but do you wanna work on this project with me?” So she’s designing everything. The social media manager’s planning everything out. And it looks so much more official than I ever thought. And then the last piece, the last component was for that friend who said “I’m too busy to listen to your podcast.” We got one more person and she’s a blog writer.

John: Oh!

Elizabeth: And so, I say “Ok, you can’t listen to our podcast, fine. Go read the blog.”

John: Go read it. There you go. That’s fantastic. You have quite the operation going here.

Elizabeth: That’s what I was saying. That’s been my favorite part, is just building. And it’s all women. And we’re just like together we just created this thing that is way more than I ever thought it would be just by myself.

John: That’s fantastic.

Elizabeth: The team building and collaboration has been my favorite part for sure.

John: Yeah. No, I love it. And I’m sure that that translates to work in a skillset sort of way.

Elizabeth: Oh, absolutely. You know, I put a team together. And now, we’ve created something, you know? And before, especially when you’re just starting off in newer positions, like you don’t always get that level of leadership experience right away.

John: Right. Yeah.

Elizabeth: And so, it’s been really awesome to just be able to execute on a project like that and be able to show something for it, you know.

John: Right. Yeah.

Elizabeth: So it’s definitely worked out for work.

John: Yeah. No, that’s awesome. And I feel like that’s one of those things that when you’re in business school, no one told you “Hey, go start a podcast ’cause it will make you better at your job.” But it clearly does.

Elizabeth: No. Definitely not.

John: You know? But it clearly does. I mean, it’s straight up.

Elizabeth: I’m of that camp where it’s like your creativity and your creative pursuits absolutely can bolster you at whatever you’re doing to feed your face.

John: Yeah.

Elizabeth: And so, it’s been awesome for me to kind of explore it, the many different ways I can do that and how it does make me a better professional. I think it makes me a more whole person at work to have these things that I enjoy.

John: Yeah. Oh, so, so much. Yeah. ‘Cause I mean, I would imagine just talking about it and sharing it. Just you come alive, you know. You’re more energized and then finding out what someone else loves to do. They come alive. And talking about a macro in Excel is not making anyone come alive.

Elizabeth: It is not. I mean, shock upon shock, but it is not.

John: Right. Right? Exactly. And so, is it something that you do share at work?

Elizabeth: I tend to slip it into conversation when I can kind of thing.

John: Sure. Yeah.

Elizabeth: It’s sort of like if you’re just talking or what’s up or what’s going on. I’ll just say “Oh, you know, I’m working on my podcast.” And they’re like “You have a podcast?” I’m like “Yeah, it’s just for my friend basically to have a resource.” And they’re like “That’s awesome. That’s great.” Do any of them listen to it? I highly doubt it. But you know what?

John: It doesn’t matter.

Elizabeth: It doesn’t matter.

And I think it creates an environment that lets you mention the things that you’re just doing outside of work.

John: Yeah. I mean, if you were a sky diver, I mean, not everybody’s gonna skydive with you either, you know.

Elizabeth: Precisely.

John: It’s cool.

Elizabeth: So it doesn’t matter.

John: You do your thing. Tell me about it. Awesome. I’ll do my thing. I’ll tell you about it and then we’re all good.

Elizabeth: Exactly.

John: You know? Yeah. And that’s the thing. It’s like it doesn’t have to be set a world record and Joe Rogan number of downloads. Like who cares? Like I enjoy podcasting, I enjoy creating this show, and I feel like the I enjoy (blank) takes all the pressure off of any follow-up question on is it good ’cause it doesn’t matter if it’s good. I’m doing it for me. You know? Like if you’re anything creative or even athletic, am I any good at this? It doesn’t matter. I’m doing it for me type of thing.

Elizabeth: And that’s truly such an important point. Like that’s such a— I hate to say it, but that’s like a truth bomb right there because I think especially in the culture that we have today, there’s so much pressure where it’s like “Oh, well, if I do this and I fail, then I shouldn’t even start doing it in the first place.” Right? It’s like quitting before you’ve even begun. And the entire point of doing something creative, the entire point of having a hobby is just, as you said, it doesn’t matter if it’s good. What matters is if it brings you joy, if it makes you happy. Like it makes you creative. And honestly, I feel like creativity, once you’re not a child anymore, is like a skill that you have to continue to use—

John: Very much.

Elizabeth: …in order to retain it.

John: Yeah.

Elizabeth: You know? And so, by being creative outside of work, I can also be creative and adaptable at work.

John: Yeah.

Elizabeth: You know? And so, it’s so important. It’s so important. And you’re right. Who cares if it’s good? Who cares?

John: Right?

Elizabeth: It’s for you.

John: Yeah. Exactly.

Elizabeth: It’s just for you.

John: Exactly. Exactly. No. It’s so true. And from all the research that I’ve done, like that’s been the biggest thing, is people just being embarrassed about or they don’t wanna give themselves a label or they’re whatever. And it’s like “No, no, no.”

Elizabeth: Yeah.

John: It doesn’t matter.

Elizabeth: Are you embarrassed by that morning coffee that you treat yourself to every single day at Starbucks or Dunkin’?

John: Right.

Elizabeth: No. Because that’s for you. It’s just for you.

John: I love that. I love that.

Elizabeth: You’re not justifying it to anyone. Right? Of course, you might be justifying it to me as your accountant telling you you should probably spend your money in different ways, but that’s entirely different.

John: That’s a different story. Yeah. Or like if you’re in the Olympics and you get fourth place, so you don’t even get a medal, like is that embarrassing? No, that’s freaking awesome. You got fourth place in the world. Like who cares?

Elizabeth: Who cares?

John: It’s all good. It’s all good.

Elizabeth: And honestly, that mentality is so important to just let go of that fear of failure. Like that will take you through life, you know. Who cares? Who cares?

John: No. Yeah. And I mean, I’m just as guilty of that as anybody for sure.

Elizabeth: Oh, so no question.

John: Yeah. I mean, tTry your best and give your best shot, but also just keep things in perspective and all that. And so, I guess how much do you feel like it’s on an organization to encourage people to share their “ands” or to bring it up in conversation without punching them in the mouth, or disciplining, or whatever versus how much is it on the individual to just be like “you know what, hey, I got my little small circle here, I’m gonna start with this”?

Elizabeth: Right. I think it’s both. I really do. And I know that’s such a cop out answer, but I think—

John: No, no worries.

Elizabeth: …the reason it’s both is because the organization has to foster the environment for it. And the person has to actually make the choice to set the boundary to actively go pursue those things. Right? If this is something important to you, even if it’s like going to the gym, right, like let’s just forget that it’s something creative. Right? Like just going to the gym, say in the middle of the day on your lunch break, whatever in the morning, you have to create those boundaries anyway. So that’s on you. That’s your personal prerogative. It’s the same thing for if you’re trying to do something creative, carving out that time saying “Hey, I have another meeting” or “Hey, I have a meeting. It’s with myself.” But they don’t need to know. You know?

John: Right. Yeah.

Elizabeth: Carving out that time. Whereas I think too on the organization to offer the flexibility. Right? If your organization is saying you have to be— especially in this post pandemic world— if you have to be there 9 to 5 like every single day, that’s gonna hurt the flexibility that you have to go pursue that other thing. But hey, say that they have proper hours and boundaries, that organization— at least it’s like, you know, for sure that these are the hours it’s gonna be. Whereas an organization where the expectation is that you’re working to all odd hours of the night and there’s nothing really set, that’s not really fostering an environment for your people to have a life outside of work.

John: Right. Right.

Elizabeth: Right?

John: Yeah.

Elizabeth: So to an extent, it is systemic.

And I think especially it’s on management and top people because they have to set that tone. Right? Because when you hear that your boss is like going to do something with their family or going on a fun surf trip or whatever it is, especially on this West Coast, it’s different. It makes you feel like “Oh, I can go do those things.”

John: Exactly.

Elizabeth: And that is absolutely on the company and the management to create an environment where you feel it’s okay. And that’s why this podcast is so important because talking about it is part of that. Right? You have to be able to talk about it so you can go make time for it. So I think it’s absolutely both. And I also notice a difference from the West Coast to the East Coast on how more people are willing to talk about it on the West Coast.

John: Interesting.

Elizabeth: I feel like West Coast people have more hobbies. Just in my experience. I’m not saying it’s everyone. But as far as a work culture goes, it tends to be a little bit more acceptable to talk about out here than on the East coast where I’m originally from.

John: Right. Yeah. And it’s one of those too where, you know, like even the way you said it is people on the West Coast have more hobbies. It’s like maybe the people on the East Coast have the same number of hobbies, but they’re not talking about it, you know.

Elizabeth: Right.

John: So if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, if a professional has 17 hobbies, but never shares any of them, then they might as well have zero. But I do agree that it’s not a trap when people at the top— and at the top could be a senior manager or a manager that’s over a small team of 5 or 6 people.

Elizabeth: Oh, absolutely.

John: You know, even the middle manager. You know, you can still set the tone at the top and have the most awesome group within the organization. And yeah, if you’re living it and if you’re asking people about theirs and making sure they’re doing them, like “When’s the last time you went on your surf trip? When’s the next one you have booked? Oh, you don’t have one booked. Well, let’s talk about it because you have something to look forward to now.” You know, something that enriches your life and brings you joy like you said earlier. It’s so crucial—

Elizabeth: Exactly.

John: …that people care, you know, just care really.

Elizabeth: It’s just showing of care, I think, more than anything.

John: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. The showing of the caring. Yeah, totally. Totally. And I guess, do you have any words of encouragement to people listening that maybe have an “and” and they feel like, well, it has nothing to do with my job, so no one’s gonna care about it?

Elizabeth: I would say people care because people love when you go for it. Right? Like when you’re pursuing a hobby, when you’re pursuing a passion, when you’re pursuing a dream, there’s something about seeing someone just going for something that they love and appreciate that everyone is really encouraged. And I say when you feel like it’s totally secondary, it doesn’t matter. It does because it makes you a better person to then do whatever it is. My grandma has great advice. She says do something to feed your face while you figure out what you actually wanna do. And you know what? If your job is just feeding your face right now and you’ve got a side hobby or side hustle, that’s really what’s bringing you joy, hey, you know what, that job is feeding your face and then you get to do what you actually wanna do on your off time and that’s great.

John: Exactly.

Elizabeth: That’s awesome.

John: Exactly. And make some of those cookies from Western PA while you’re at it.

Elizabeth: Exactly.

John: If you’re feeding your face. So there you go.

Elizabeth: Take a whole cookie table if you can.

John: Right? No, but that’s such great advice. You know, just take care of yourself and have an okay lifestyle while you’re trying to figure out what you wanna do type of thing.

Elizabeth: Exactly.

John: And have those hobbies on the side. They could be not income generating, which is great. They shouldn’t be. That takes all the pressure off. Just have fun.

Elizabeth: Absolutely. Just have fun, be creative, and that’s all you gotta do. That’s all it’s gotta be.

John: I love the question of just who else are you. You know, if I strip your job title away, like who else are you? And there’s so many great things that come from that. So this has been awesome, Elizabeth. Thank you so much for being a part of this, but I feel like I so rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning. So I thought it would be only appropriate to turn the tables. And since you got your own podcast and you’re a pro, I’ll be in the hot seat now and I’m all yours. So whatever you got, fire away.

Elizabeth: I appreciate it. Yes, I do have a fun one I am pretty excited about.

John: Okay.

Elizabeth: This is also just as a side note based on my latest Wikipedia rabbit hole.

John: Okay. All right.

Elizabeth: But if you went treasure hunting, what treasure would you search for?

John: Oh, wow. That is a really good one. I mean, since we’re talking about cookies, like I think something related to like the most delicious like chocolate chip cookie recipe or— I mean, ’cause the cookies would probably be stale by then. So probably the best chocolate chip cookie recipe out, yeah, is probably what would be in the treasure box.

That would be pretty fantastic.

Elizabeth: Sounds amazing.

John: Yeah. I mean, just since we’re on the topic, might as well keep the theme going here and yeah.

Elizabeth: Nothing wrong with that.

John: Yeah, yeah. I mean, something that’s just out of nowhere that like, I don’t know, maybe the Egyptians had thousands of years ago and it’s in a pyramid and it’s like “What?! No way!” Like that’s amazing.

Elizabeth: Oh, gosh.

John: So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. That would be great.

Elizabeth: That sounds amazing.

John: That’s a good question.

Elizabeth: All right. Second question. Thank you. Yeah, I was happy with that one. All right, second question. What do you consider to be the greatest love song of all time?

John: Oh, wow. That’s another good one. Baby Got Back is not one of them, I guess. So let me see here. I mean, I play the piano and I can play Unchained Melody, so I guess maybe—

Elizabeth: Oh! I love that song.

John: …because I can play it—

Elizabeth: That’s a great song.

John: Maybe that will count. And it’s an old classic,—

Elizabeth: That’s a good one.

John: …so we’ll say that one maybe.

Elizabeth: Level classic.

John: That’s a good one. Or a new one though that I think is good and it’s maybe not like a love song love song, but I love that new— It’s a Bieber song, but it’s The Ghost Song. It’s about his dad I guess or not his dad, but about him if you watch the music video.

Elizabeth: Well, there’s different kinds of love.

John: But yeah. No, no, but I think that’s a good song as well. And then Vance Joy has a new one out as well. I think it’s called Clarity and that’s a fun one too, but, yeah, I go with the old classics.

Elizabeth: I haven’t listened to that. I have to listen to that.

John: Yeah, yeah, that’s a good one too, so yeah. But yeah, I had to throw out a ridiculous one just in the beginning just for laughs.

Elizabeth: You got me.

John: Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for being a part of What’s Your “And”? This was super, super fun.

Elizabeth: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

John: Yeah, absolutely. And everybody listening, if you wanna see some pictures of Elizabeth in action, or maybe connect with her on social media, or get a link to listen to the Entry Level Adulting podcast, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click the big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcast or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.