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Rick Goodmay [00:00:05]:
Hi. This is Rick Goodmay. And when I’m not smoking in the backyard, I’m listening to John Garrett on What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:20]:
Welcome to episode 645 of What’s Your “And”?. This is John Garrett and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who just like me is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And.” Those things above and beyond your technical skills. Things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show is about be sure to check out the award-winning book.

John Garrett [00:00:48]:
It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.WhatsYourAnd.com. The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right. This voice reading the book. Look for What’s Your Hand on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week and this week is no different with my friend Rick Goodmay.

John Garrett [00:01:18]:
He’s the director of client relations at ICM Colorado and now he’s finally with me here today. Rick, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Rick Goodmay [00:01:27]:
John, my pleasure and thanks for bullying me into it.

John Garrett [00:01:31]:
I figured there’s only a dozen times that I needed to ask. But no, this is going to be so much fun. I mean, you’re a living example of this. So it’s so perfect to have you be a part of this. But I do have rapid fire questions. Things I’ve never asked you in the years that I’ve known you. And now it makes me nervous to ask you, but you know, hey, everyone can hear. So here we go.

John Garrett [00:01:50]:
How about a favorite color?

Rick Goodmay [00:01:51]:
I’m gonna go with red.

John Garrett [00:01:53]:
Alright. How about a least favorite color?

Rick Goodmay [00:01:56]:
Probably green. I am. I’m conflicted.

John Garrett [00:02:00]:
How about a first concert?

Rick Goodmay [00:02:01]:
First concert was Bon Jovi way back. It had to be 87.

John Garrett [00:02:05]:
Wow. That’s a classic.

Rick Goodmay [00:02:07]:
You you can’t tell from my mullet.

John Garrett [00:02:11]:
Are you more sunrise or sunset?

Rick Goodmay [00:02:14]:
Definitely sunrise.

John Garrett [00:02:15]:
How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Rick Goodmay [00:02:18]:
Yeah. I’m a pretty big fan of Kevin Costner.

John Garrett [00:02:20]:
Oh, yeah. Alright. Just an important one. Toilet paper roll, are we going over

Rick Goodmay [00:02:25]:
or under? I’m gonna have to go with the over, John.

John Garrett [00:02:28]:
Alright. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Rick Goodmay [00:02:31]:
Man, I’m definitely Star Wars.

John Garrett [00:02:33]:
How about toppings on a pizza? You can load it up.

Rick Goodmay [00:02:36]:
Pretty easy. Italian sausage, more Italian sausage and mushrooms.

John Garrett [00:02:40]:
Nice. How about a PC or a Mac when it comes to your computer?

Rick Goodmay [00:02:44]:
I have a PC, but because I don’t know anything about Mac. Right.

John Garrett [00:02:49]:
How about a favorite day of the week?

Rick Goodmay [00:02:51]:
I gotta go with probably Wednesday. Yeah? Well, it’s Wednesday is typically my wife’s Monday, my Friday, because we get to have a little cocktail together usually on Wednesday afternoons. Kids’ schedules work where we can do that. Yeah. I look forward to that part of it.

John Garrett [00:03:07]:
That’s awesome. How about the ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Rick Goodmay [00:03:11]:
Oh, definitely in a cup.

John Garrett [00:03:12]:
Well, yeah, you don’t waste as much. If you smooth talk them, they’ll put the cone on top sometimes

Rick Goodmay [00:03:16]:
for free. Big and clumsy. So if I break the cup, it runs down my arm. If I drop the cone, it runs down my arm. If I drop the cup, it’s just a mess. So

John Garrett [00:03:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s on you then. That’s that’s your fault.

Rick Goodmay [00:03:27]:
How about a favorite sports team? Favorite sports team. I like the nuggets.

John Garrett [00:03:32]:
How about a favorite number? Any number. 33.

Rick Goodmay [00:03:37]:
33 has been a lucky number for a lot of years. I don’t know why. It just has always been. That’s great. What’s a typical breakfast? Typical breakfast is a protein shake, couple hard boiled eggs.

John Garrett [00:03:47]:
There you go. None. At least you know what it is. Some people, nothing. It’s like, what? You gotta have something. I’m starving. I just spent 8 hours sleeping. That’s a that’s a lot of work.

Rick Goodmay [00:03:57]:
We’re on a podcast, but you know me better than that. I gotta eat.

John Garrett [00:04:02]:
There you go. There you go. Speaking of eat, how about a least favorite vegetable?

Rick Goodmay [00:04:06]:
Least favorite vegetable. How about oh, this is a

John Garrett [00:04:10]:
fun one. Summer, winter, spring, or fall?

Rick Goodmay [00:04:12]:
I’m a fall guy. I just I just I’m a hunter. I’m a fall sports, get the kids back to school, out of the house.

John Garrett [00:04:19]:
Yeah. It starts to cool down a little bit. Yeah. I agree. Absolutely. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Rick Goodmay [00:04:26]:
It’s a tough one because I have this really cool koi pond that I built during COVID. Hand dug it. My backyard is my paradise, but that koi pond is so relaxing, so much fun to sit by. It’s just it’s way cool. I gotta go with that.

John Garrett [00:04:41]:
No. That works. That’s the gem of the backyard. And speaking of backyards, amateur backyard smoker, grilling and smoking and meat and cheese and all the things. The fire department has to like, your neighbors are probably worried that your house is always constantly on fire, but they know now that you know what you’re doing. But, yeah, how’d you get into the smoking? Did you grow up doing that a lot or

Rick Goodmay [00:05:03]:
No. So so food is a big thing with Italians, obviously. But I used to work with a guy, and you know him, James Gable. I’ve introduced it to James a while back. Every year at Christmas, he would bring in some different smoked cheeses for people to try that he did at home. He’s a very gracious man. He’s a good man, but they were small pieces. And I’m a big fella, so had to

John Garrett [00:05:24]:
learn how

Rick Goodmay [00:05:25]:
to do it so I could make my own and have cheese all year round. So I went to him as my Jedi and said, hey. You gotta teach me how to do this, and it’s taken off from there.

John Garrett [00:05:35]:
So it was a coworker showing his hand, then it rubbed off on you and you’re like, show me the ways. Yeah. We can say that. You’re not the only one. You can’t it’s not like you’re only one person at a time. I I think that’s incredible though that it was something where you worked somewhere and you had that relationship with a coworker enough to where they wanted to share that.

Rick Goodmay [00:05:54]:
Yep. And it’s kinda passed on. You know, in construction like we do, we have journeymen and apprentices. So we always pass down the craft of the different trades to the apprentices. I don’t know how many different people I’ve now passed down the art of smoking and ideas, but on a good Monday, there’ll be 5 or 6 people show up to work with bags of food for me going, taste what I did this weekend. And I can have bags of ribs, and I can have bags of brisket. What more could you ask for?

John Garrett [00:06:24]:
That’s awesome, man. Like, that’s so cool that it’s something that that is talked about. Sometimes we get in our own hands of, well, grilling and smoking mean and cheeses has absolutely nothing to do with building buildings and bridges and, you know, construction world, but it’s something that we talk about and and we share. Was there ever a point where you were like, oh, maybe I shouldn’t share this? Or

Rick Goodmay [00:06:43]:
No. It’s a matter of fact, that’s what kept my sanity during COVID. I’m a huge people person, and I thrive on being in a room with people, sharing a meal with people. And during COVID, when the restaurants closed and you couldn’t get people to meet face to face, we have I have a smoker at the office too. I have a work smoker, a home smoker.

John Garrett [00:07:04]:
So That’s incredible. A couple of

Rick Goodmay [00:07:06]:
us that smoke here, we would I’d line up a couple clients to come in, get in early, smoke all morning just in time for lunch, and then we’d set up in the conference room, socially distanced, of course, and feed people freshly smoked lunch. And since we couldn’t go out, we found a way to do it.

John Garrett [00:07:21]:
Yeah. And how important is your and to relationships? I mean, yours specifically sounds pretty central to it all. But, I mean, in general, other people’s ands, how important is that?

Rick Goodmay [00:07:33]:
I met this guy, John Garrett, years ago, told him all about

John Garrett [00:07:36]:
Sounds like a weirdo. This what your

Rick Goodmay [00:07:37]:
end concept even before there was a book out about it. And I applied a lot of the principles and still do today because if I don’t know my clients in-depth or, you know, even personal life in-depth and know what my kids enjoy

John Garrett [00:07:52]:
or

Rick Goodmay [00:07:52]:
know what my wife enjoys or know what cousin Bob enjoys. We’re not gonna know each other well enough to, you know, be successful in any type of relationship. So business wise, some of the first things I ask people are what their and is or what they enjoy doing or what. You know? It’s not about work all the time. That’s why I respect you and respect what you did putting this down because for as simple as this, it’s really cool stuff.

John Garrett [00:08:18]:
No. I appreciate it, man. And it it really is. It’s such a simple thing. It’s on our default mode. Our default mode is, you know, work, and that’s why I’m getting paid is work. But work is a human to human relationship, and we forget to create those human relationships first. And then after that, man, it’s gravy.

Rick Goodmay [00:08:37]:
I would agree with that. Give somebody something and you can just see on their face when they take a piece of smoked cheese and put it in their mouth that they start eating. The the delight just happens, or you’re sharing a big plate of ribs with somebody and they’re like, how did this happen? You could just see it. It’s like the lights come on. You want them over one bite at a time.

John Garrett [00:08:56]:
In case somebody’s like, I don’t believe in God. It’s like, really? Try some of this.

Rick Goodmay [00:08:59]:
I’m not a religious man, but I gotta believe this is.

John Garrett [00:09:02]:
Right? Amen, man. So do you have favorite things that you you like to prepare?

Rick Goodmay [00:09:08]:
So for me, I really I enjoy smoked chicken. I make a mean smoked chicken breast that Typically, we’ll do 10 to £12 every couple weeks, and we vacuum pack it. My wife, she’ll eat it during the week, and I bring it. And that’s what I do during the week. Just get my protein boost every day. And but I really Christmas time and the holidays, I I cold smoke all kinds of different cheeses. Kinda got back to where I learned it from my buddy, and I bake summer sausages and different things and some jerkies. And the neighbors will bring over trays of cookies at Christmas, and I bring out the cheese and sausage baggies and maybe a little homemade limoncello.

Rick Goodmay [00:09:49]:
And it’s a good swap off. I don’t have to bake cookies, and I can do what I like. So

John Garrett [00:09:55]:
No. That’s incredible. So what is cold smoking?

Rick Goodmay [00:09:57]:
Cold smoking is a little different. So when you do cheese, obviously, cheese would melt, you would think. Right. Yeah. I use my smoker as the vessel, line it with ice, and I use a device called the smoking tube, and it just generates smoke through pellets, not heat. So you have to keep cheese under 90 degrees while you smoke it. Otherwise, the oil start to come out, and it gets really bitter. So you cold smoke it 4 or 5 hours, keeping the temperature of the cheese down, and then you vacuum pack it and let it sit for 3 or 4 weeks before you try to eat it.

Rick Goodmay [00:10:28]:
And it seems like that 3 or 4 week mark, all of a sudden, the magic happens. You can un vacuum pack it. You put it on a cracker. You’re a happy camper.

John Garrett [00:10:36]:
Is it pellets? Is it wood?

Rick Goodmay [00:10:37]:
Like So it depends. The the purists like the they call them stick burners. It looks like it’s on a trailer, and they’re putting logs in there.

John Garrett [00:10:45]:
Oh, right.

Rick Goodmay [00:10:46]:
I I like to multitask. So I I’m a pellet guy, but my pellet smoker works as well as most of those stick burners. And it’s it’s a battle. Coors Light Bud Light kind of thing. But Right.

John Garrett [00:10:58]:
And it’s the end result. I mean, whatevs. You know? Like, as long as it tastes good and you like it, then that’s all that matters.

Rick Goodmay [00:11:04]:
Absolutely.

John Garrett [00:11:05]:
How much is it that other people like what you’re doing versus you like it?

Rick Goodmay [00:11:08]:
I mean, I’ve caught my neighbors in my backyard poaching out of my smoker.

John Garrett [00:11:12]:
I’m not kidding. No. I did not. But but if they’re listening, I saw you that one time.

Rick Goodmay [00:11:20]:
Yeah. Just because I have security cameras. But no. You know, I’ve done a few summer picnics for companies and couple friends’ graduation parties and stuff. But everybody, Christmastime rolls around, and I’m on the list for cheese. Right? So they must like it.

John Garrett [00:11:36]:
No. For sure. But, I mean, even if they didn’t, you would still do it because you enjoy it. You know? I mean, obviously, you would dial it a little bit and tweak and, you know, maybe make it better or something that you at least like to eat. But, yeah, but how much does it matter that everybody likes it versus, hey, I’m doing it because I enjoy this?

Rick Goodmay [00:11:54]:
I I think for me, the satisfaction is doing it, and the the bonus is people liking it.

John Garrett [00:12:00]:
Yeah. Well, you because you’re also such a people person. You know, seeing that joy and that time when they take that bite, and that’s all part of it.

Rick Goodmay [00:12:06]:
If they don’t like it, we trade them in.

John Garrett [00:12:08]:
Find something else. Exactly. And before you got into into this, is there something else that you shared at work, or is this kind of the thing that broke it open?

Rick Goodmay [00:12:18]:
No. So I like I said, I come from an Italian background. My mom was an amazing cook. My grandmother’s on both sides amazing cook. So there was a lot of food sharing.

John Garrett [00:12:28]:
Got it.

Rick Goodmay [00:12:29]:
I chalk a lot of things up to my mom, especially that my ability to network with people because, you know, she worked in retail and an Italian house, she get a whole lot of pasta on sundaes and the big pot of sauces out. And sometimes we never knew who was coming to dinner. She would meet people who needed a good meal, and they’d be over on Sundays. That’s beautiful. Yeah. There’s a little more to it, but I guess I could share. But if I get emotional, John

John Garrett [00:12:56]:
No. That’s so beautiful, though. Where it’s, you know, it’s it’s creating that space for people.

Rick Goodmay [00:13:00]:
She like to roll the silverware and napkins like they do at most most high end restaurants. Right. She had her whole silverware collection, but she had one fork, and it was a red handled fork. And mysteriously, if you got that red handle fork, you had help with dishes after. Oh. Growing up, we we weren’t the richest kids. We didn’t know it. But when it we became successful and more successful, my brother and I tried to buy her a dishwasher, and she wouldn’t have it.

Rick Goodmay [00:13:28]:
We never could figure out why. As I got older and started to realize the people she was having over for dinner, they were also the same ones that were getting the fork.

John Garrett [00:13:37]:
Oh. They

Rick Goodmay [00:13:38]:
had to go do dishes. When we lost my mom, it took me a while. Like, it devastated me. I’m you know me. I’m a big guy, but I’m a big mama’s boy.

John Garrett [00:13:45]:
And Yeah. You’re a big softy.

Rick Goodmay [00:13:47]:
I had no way to figure out any closure. And once I figured that fork out and the fact that she was doing it, one of my best friends in the world to this day, after his mom passed away while we were in high school, that poor sucker got the red fork, like, 4, 5 weeks in a row. We finally found out that the reason they got it is because they needed to stand in the sink, hand wash dishes with her so she could talk to you, make sure you were alright. We now have numerous.

John Garrett [00:14:17]:
A tattoo on your arm with a red fork, red handle.

Rick Goodmay [00:14:20]:
Kinda like the Red Hat Society, but there’s several of us now with red forks tattooed on us.

John Garrett [00:14:24]:
That’s incredible. Yeah. Because it’s not like you have to go and do dishes on your own while all the rest of us are out back having fun. It’s so no. Mom’s in there talking with you.

Rick Goodmay [00:14:33]:
She’s just making sure you were good. When I take people some food or I take them some I think it’s another way to check-in on people and go, hey. And I hope you enjoy this. How’s everything else going kind of thing.

John Garrett [00:14:43]:
And that works for neighbors, but it also works for coworkers.

Rick Goodmay [00:14:46]:
Absolutely. And, you know, Christmas time at the office, I’ll make a big platter of sausage and different cheeses. We have this common area, and I’ll lay it out. And it doesn’t matter if you’re somebody who’s only been here a couple weeks or somebody that’s been here 10 years. They’re gonna enjoy it. Inevitably, they come by, and you can’t understand what they’re trying to say to make sure they’re busy chewing. And I’m like, well, that’s a good sign.

John Garrett [00:15:10]:
Right. So Don’t try talking till you swallow. Like, we don’t need you to I don’t I’m like again, man. I don’t Right. There you go. That’s awesome. How much is it on the organization to create that space where people feel like they can share or maybe there’s structure to it? Or how much is it on the individual to just create that on their own?

Rick Goodmay [00:15:29]:
Our organization is pretty unique. We do consider ourselves the ICM family. I mean, we’ve grown tremendously over the last 6 years. And for the Denver office, especially the one I’m in, we have an executive VP, and he’s a kind man. He’s kind as you’ll ever find, and he totally gets it. And it’s just about I mean, we go around all of us go around each other’s office. We check-in on each other. I mean, first two hours of a Monday, you’d be surprised if we get anything done because everybody’s checking in.

Rick Goodmay [00:15:58]:
How was your weekend? It’s just the culture here, and I think it’s naturally taken the shape it is just because one, it’s the organization really. But 2, I think the people here really care. It’s not no different than any other family. Right? We all do check-in on each other in one way, shape, or another, and we all try to help each other. Everybody feels at home here, and I think part of it comes from that personal side. So

John Garrett [00:16:26]:
Yeah. I mean, that’s awesome. I mean, it’s just how it is here, and it’s genuine. It’s not where, oh, I’m a foreman. I need to check this box, you know, for whatever I need to, you know, whatever it is. It’s no. I I genuinely care about the people around me, so I’m checking on them. I know you love to go to concerts.

John Garrett [00:16:43]:
I know you love to hike. I know you love to volunteer at the dog shelter. Like, whatever your thing is, how was that this weekend? Because I remember you were going to do that. So tell me about it.

Rick Goodmay [00:16:52]:
And, really, construction’s a dangerous business anyway, so you don’t want somebody distracted from having you know, maybe they had a rough weekend. So we all try to stay pretty in tune to each other because we wanna make sure that, 1, we all go home safe, but, 2, we all come back safe too.

John Garrett [00:17:09]:
Now that’s a huge point. I mean,

Rick Goodmay [00:17:11]:
I’m not a recovering CPA. I don’t even play 1 on TV.

John Garrett [00:17:16]:
They stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night. But, I mean, there’s no difference, really, in how it should be. I mean, you know, like, yeah, one is obviously the stakes are higher than, you know, if you work in an office, type of a thing, but there’s no reason at the end of the day why the goal shouldn’t be the same. We’re all

Rick Goodmay [00:17:34]:
trying to fill the same bucket. We’re all trying to make sure we’re here and we’re present and taking care of each other. So

John Garrett [00:17:40]:
And then yeah. And then yeah. I mean, I made it back this from the weekend just so I could get some more Rick Goodmay meat and cheese. So that’s really what I’m here for. Do you have any words of encouragement for anybody listening that maybe, you know, they like to smoke meat or they have an hand that they feel like has nothing to do with their job?

Rick Goodmay [00:17:59]:
If you know your hand and you’re passionate about it, all you can do is introduce it to somebody. If they are interested in it. Great. And if not, somebody will be. And you’re going to find those people that you share that ground with. I mean, my end is I like to make good food and there’s a whole lot of people in the world that like to eat good food. So I took I took the easy route.

John Garrett [00:18:21]:
That’s true. But, I mean, I know nothing about smoking meat. You know? I just eat it, but I don’t, like, do it. I didn’t have it and go, I could do this. I was like, ah, you know what? I’ll just keep buying it. So it’s cool to learn about because your eyes light up when you’re talking about it. You know, you’re alive, you’re animated, you’re happy. And that that sometimes happens with work, but sometimes not.

John Garrett [00:18:42]:
But smoking meat and cheese, like all the time, it’s a great story.

Rick Goodmay [00:18:46]:
Absolutely. And, you know, the beauty of smoking meat, smoking cheese, smoking fish, you can base your timing. You one of 2 ways. You can either have a timer and a temperature probe. I’m here until the chicken’s mine.

John Garrett [00:19:00]:
There you go. You have a bunch of ants going on here.

Rick Goodmay [00:19:02]:
That’s a rough day. You could really cook that chicken low and slow. Right? There

John Garrett [00:19:07]:
you go. No. Well, this this has been so much fun, Rick, but I feel like it’s only fair that we turn the tables since I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning. So we’ll turn this into the Rick Goodmay podcast. So here we go.

Rick Goodmay [00:19:20]:
I’m gonna get these reading glasses on.

John Garrett [00:19:23]:
I’m all yours. Whatever you got.

Rick Goodmay [00:19:25]:
Alright, John Garrett. Coke or Pepsi?

John Garrett [00:19:28]:
I guess if I had to choose one of those, I would pick Pepsi. But I honestly just mostly drink water.

Rick Goodmay [00:19:35]:
Along the same nines then, are they referred to as soda or are they referred to as pop?

John Garrett [00:19:40]:
They’re soda because we’re adults. Once you’re a teenager, let’s start calling it soda like the rest of adults do.

Rick Goodmay [00:19:45]:
Does this podcast herd in Illinois?

John Garrett [00:19:47]:
Oh, it definitely is. It’s herd in the north. Absolutely. And I’ll get all the emails and I don’t care. And then there’s the deep south. I remember the first time we went to Houston, Texas, and I tried to order I said, well, you know, what kinda Coke do you have? And they’re like, Sprite, Pepsi. Like, I’m like, what? That’s not Coke. And, yeah, they just call it Coke.

John Garrett [00:20:06]:
Everything’s Coke. Sprite Coke.

Rick Goodmay [00:20:08]:
When I was in Atlanta, somebody said it was soda pop, and I went, oh, well, that throws me way off.

John Garrett [00:20:13]:
You’re just playing down the middle so you don’t tick anybody off. That’s what you’re doing.

Rick Goodmay [00:20:17]:
Yep. Alright. Dogs or cats? Dogs. Dogs with a w, d a w g s, or d

John Garrett [00:20:22]:
o g s? Obviously. You know me.

Rick Goodmay [00:20:28]:
Bikesy food or mild food?

John Garrett [00:20:30]:
Yeah, mild. It’s hilarious. So I go to an Indian restaurant or a a Mexican restaurant, they’re like, oh, it’s level spices 0, children’s menu. I don’t know. Whatever the I would like to be able to taste the food.

Rick Goodmay [00:20:42]:
Ice cream or frozen yogurt?

John Garrett [00:20:45]:
Yeah. Ice cream all the time. Yeah. Alright.

Rick Goodmay [00:20:48]:
And last one, pineapple on pizza. Acceptable or not acceptable?

John Garrett [00:20:52]:
Acceptable and encouraged. Not mandatory, but encouraged. Well, thank you so much, Rick, for being a part of this and and just being a living example and personally just being so encouraging. So thank you so much, and and thanks for being a part of What’s Your “And”?

Rick Goodmay [00:21:05]:
Thanks for finally beating me into it. Beat me into submission.

John Garrett [00:21:10]:
If anybody sees Rick in person, you know I can’t beat Rick into anything. If you like to see some pictures of Rick grilling or smoking his meat or in his backyard enjoying his paradise or maybe connect with him on social media on LinkedIn. Be sure to go to www.WhatsYourAnd.com. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button to the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends. So they get the message that we’re all trying to spread. That who you are is so much more than what you do.