John: Welcome to Episode 7 of the Green Apple Podcast. This episode is full of some great insights and some really good laughs so I know you’re going to enjoy hearing from Jason Blumer. But first, I’ve got a huge favor to ask. If you’re listening on iTunes or Stitcher, it’d be super cool if you could take two minutes to leave a quick review of the show so their crazy computer algorithms will know “Hey, we’re doing a fun show over here.”

Okay, so now let me introduce you to the accountant of the week, Jason Blumer. He graduated from Wofford College in Spartanburg, South Carolina with an accounting degree and went into work in industry, eventually become a Controller for a few years before being like “You know what, I’m going over to public accounting.” But he left all of that behind in 2003 and now he’s got his own firm. And as if that wasn’t enough, he created the Thriveal Network, a really cool supportive community for accountants who have their own firms.

And Jason, I know your time is so precious so it’s really cool to have you here.

Jason: I’m pumped, pumped to be here.

John: Nice, man, that’s the best answer. Yeah, you’re on the Green Apple Podcast, how pumped are you? No, thank you so much for being here. I know we’ve talked a couple of times in the past and I guess the best way is just for you to kind of introduce yourself a little bit to what you’re working on, where you work now, to the audience.

Jason: Sure. So I run my own firm and it is a virtual firm, we don’t have any offices. We’re invisible, as we say.

John: To the IRS, as well?

Jason: No. IRS knows we exist so we have to stay in their purview. But we actually used to have an office, and I thought, “You know what, I wonder if I could go work at home in my pajamas.” And so I closed my office and here we are, three-and-a-half years later, it worked. I cannot believe it worked.

John: That is awesome, man. That is so awesome, that is so cool.

Jason: It worked. I lost about 20% of my client base in the process but hey, you got to get through some bumps to get to the thing you want. So I just can’t believe it worked.

John: Right, that’s fantastic. So all of your staff and everything, it’s all virtual?

Jason: Yeah. Even since then, we kind of got rid of half of the team that went virtual with us, they didn’t do so well in that model, and then we’ve hired the other half. And we get to pick the best people no matter where they are so we just don’t care about zip codes, geography, we just get to hire the best people we find and we have some amazing people.

John: Yeah, that sounds awesome, man. And so are you doing is it mostly bookkeeping side of it or taxes or all kinds of things?

Jason: So our firm, we try not to compare ourselves to other firms because we try to recategorize really who we are. But we do support digital, web, and design agencies, that’s the only client we serve, that’s it, across the country. And we do their accounting tax and payroll but we’re also always doing some kind of business coaching or consulting with the owners of those agencies, too, to help them grow. And so we’re pretty focused on that niche, so we know how to help them grow an agency like that, how to price, how to run a company. So it’s kind of a little mix of all the financial stuff but it’s also a lot of transformative type growth consulting stuff, too.

John: Right, which is excellent because if they’re growing then they’re needing more of the other side so one hand feeds the other.

Jason: That’s right.

John: See, I’m smart, too, man.

Jason: That’s how we planned it, man.

John: Yeah. Congratulations, man, that’s super exciting that you did it. I mean, not only had your own firm but then we’re like “You know what, we’re doing this virtual and we’re going to blow this out and see what happens.”

Jason: And I’ve been running this firm for about 12-and-a-half years so it was a wild hair about five or six years ago to try to go virtual. And it’s just one of the many experiments we’ve tried that worked. Well, many experiments don’t work but many do and it’s very good. So I think that’s one struggle I have with a lot of firm owners, they really just don’t experiment.

John: Oh, no, in accounting, absolutely. What’s been done before is what we do, what they do last year. It’s just like an audit, what they do last year, just keep doing that, okay.

Jason: Oh, yeah, that’s how I was trained.

John: Right. So right out of school, where did you start?

Jason: So I went into private accounting first out of school. So I did the Controller thing, did accounting for private companies that it just drove me crazy. Just making the same set of financial statements month after month, I hated it. And then about 1998 which was about five years into my career, five years after I graduated college, that’s when I went into public accounting, and man, hit my stride, I loved it. Which sounds pretty weird but I got to hang out with clients who would walk in and go, “Hey, I need this. Can you like do this and make it up?” I’m like, “Yeah, let’s make up some stuff!”

John: “What do you want the number to be?”

Jason: Yeah, we could do this. So I got pretty pumped working with clients. I didn’t know but in private accounting, you don’t have clients, you’re kind of doing stuff for the president of some small company and he doesn’t care about the financial statements and he doesn’t use them and that’s why I got another BMW lease payment that he can afford.

So when I started working with clients directly, everything changed. You can please them, you can price them a certain way, you can do them wrong, they can fire you, you can fire them, there’s just so much that you can do serving a client, it really became the foundation of how to grow a firm is how to serve clients well.

John: Yeah, yeah. And you get a new one or several you’re dealing with all the time and a variety–

Jason: It’s a challenge, and it’s very creative. I love being creative and making stuff up.

John: Yeah, that sounds very cool. And one thing I love to ask everybody is just, how did you get into accounting? Because you seem a little bit like me, like maybe not quite the right fit.

Jason: So the story starts with me playing in a rock band.

John: This is how all accounting stories start.

Jason: See, this is how they start. I was in a rock band. So I had long hair, played bass in a rock band and two years into college, I really hadn’t picked anything major. And I think you probably should pick sooner than that, I don’t know, but I was focused on the band, man. We were going to be big.

John: Yeah, what was the name of your band?

Jason: It was Silence So Loud. Come on, that’s a great name, man. That’s a great man.

John: It’s deafening.

Jason: Yeah. So it was a rock band and so you can really play loud and suck which we really did suck pretty bad. Anyway, my dad was an accountant. I’m like “It’s time to pick a major” so it was basically a major in rock band and what am I going to minor in, is kind of how I was looking at it, so I figured I’d minor in accounting because my dad did that. And freaking here I am, and it all leads to this wonderful point here today. Here we are, I made it!

John: The Green Apple Podcast. See, it’s serendipitous. After this you can retire, you can virtually sell everything. Just don’t tell your wife.

Jason: That’s right. That’s how it went down with a lot of ups and downs in between.

John: That is so fantastic, man, that is very cool. That is very cool. So obviously, running your own firm takes a ton of time and also running the Thriveal Network and mecca, if you will. So when you’re not doing any of that, what occupies your time, any sort of hobbies or passion?

Jason: Yes. So I love to CrossFit, I do CrossFit, if people have heard of that. And so if you’re getting this picture of a stud who’s like cut, the guy who needs to take his shirt off a lot in the gym, that’s not me.

John: Oh, that’s not you.

Jason: That’s not me. I’m doing back squats beside the girls and I’m trying to do as much weight as they’re doing and then I’m cool.

John: You’re still using the colored weights.

Jason: Yup. Thankfully at CrossFit they don’t have any of those pretty colored weights so we’re using some real barbells.

John: So let’s go into CrossFit a little bit, what is CrossFit to people that don’t know?

Jason: So CrossFit is varied workouts at high intensity, that’s basically the philosophy. None of the workouts are the same, ever. So you’re going to walk in to the gym and you’re going to get to a class and the workout will have been preprogrammed before that. And maybe they’ll publish it on their blog or whatever but it’s never the same, you’re never doing the same thing. And it’s a lot of barbells so you’re throwing a lot of weight around and you’re also doing some what’s called metcons, which are metabolic conditioning so there’s the conditioning side.

So what they’re doing is they’re throwing in barbells with a lot of endurance type work. And it’s very short so the workouts might be ten minutes long; some of the long ones are 30 minutes which there are only a few of those. And during that ten minutes you’re meant to kill yourself basically.

John: Yeah, but it’s efficient.

Jason: Oh, yeah, it’s efficient. So there’s a lot of scientific study behind doing short workouts like that but at high intensity. It’s like when we hit the go button the coach is like “All right. You need to be calling for Jesus around round three.” And then when you’re done everybody just falls on the gym floor in this big puddle of sweat, and that’s what we do. And so when you hear about it you think “You’re a psychopath” or you can get addicted to it. It’s one or the other typically.

John: No, that’s cool, man.

Jason: And I’m probably not addicted but I do like it a lot. I’m a 44-year old dude trying to stay healthy, I’m not like the buff guy.

John: Right. And it’s weird because as we get older our brains are still like 24-year old and you think “Oh, I can make that basketball run”, “I can do whatever”, and then you go and your brain’s like doesn’t compute, “Why am I not able to do this anymore?” “I used to be able to at least touch the net, now I can…”

Jason: I’m actually doing a CrossFit challenge right now, they’ll sometimes do a four-week challenge, and it’s just wrecking my body. I can barely get off the toilet, I can barely lay down on the bed, it’s rough and I’m like “Wow, I am 44 years old. Welcome to….”

John: And I am paying for this, like I’m putting money into your account to kick my butt.

Jason: That’s right, but I do like it. I’m healthier, I’m stronger, so I enjoy a lot.

John: Yeah, you’ve read the brochure, I can tell, you’re buying into it.

Jason: Yeah, I drank the Kool-Aid, so…

John: You have to tell yourself that.

Jason: That’s right.

John: That’s awesome. So how did you get into CrossFit? That’s not something that you accidentally walk in to.

Jason: No, no, no, no. No, this is something I think people try to avoid typically. So my wife and I were doing a boot camp which is it’s kind of similar but not really. It’s kind of a high-intensity workout where we were going to parking lot garage. This is about 5:30 in the morning and this woman had a company where she would pull up with a big truck with a bunch of equipment behind a big trailer. We’d all go rip it out and then she would program something for about an hour and we’d just kill ourselves in the middle of a parking lot, or parking garage, or wherever, depending on whether it was raining or not.

And that was pretty cool. We saw some pretty fast changes in our body and in our strength and things like that. But then we kind of stopped liking her, she was kind of lame, blah, blah, blah. We knew some other people who go into CrossFit and so we were always very intimidated by CrossFit which I think a lot of people are.

John: Yeah. I mean it sounds intense.

Jason: It’s kind of intimidating but we decided to try it and boot camp prepared us a little bit for that. Thankfully they have what you’re paying for in CrossFit is pretty expensive to go which is one reason people don’t go, but you have a lot of coaches, well-trained coaches that are always teaching and instructing, proper form and all that’s very important. So you’re paying for coaches whereas before we had been members of gyms where $30 a month but I just go stand on an elliptical. Nothing changed, I just stopped going. I tell you what changed — I stopped going and kept paying them, so that was bad.

John: Right. Because I actually went to the CrossFit website and there’s a girl holding a tree, and I’m like “Um, wow! Blumer is all into this.”

Jason: That’s the girl I try to stay away from because she will whup my butt so…

John: Don’t stand next to her.

Jason: Don’t stand next to her. She’ll swing the tree and knock you down like that. We don’t actually have trees. Some do crazy things like that, pick up big stones, just throw tires around. We mostly just do barbell work and kind of run 400 meters and stuff like that.

John: It’s the Carolinas, so what you do expect, right?

Jason: That’s how we do things in the mountains.

John: That’s awesome, man, that’s cool. So I guess what might be one of the coolest things or most rewarding things that you’ve gotten to do maybe from doing CrossFit, maybe push yourself to do something you didn’t think you could do.

Jason: Oh, yeah! Every day when I walk in the gym, you’ve read the workout and you think “I can’t do that.” But it’s weird, a coach knows you sometimes more than you know yourself. Actually, I’m a business coach and so a lot of these parallels with the things I do so I’m just a third party with a better perspective than my clients and I know they can actually achieve things more than they can.

And so really with CrossFit, every day is a day when I go, “All right, I’m going to do this weight” and my coach comes over and goes “Ah, nope, you’re doing more than that” and you’re like “Are you serious?” But you know, I do it. I get through the workout, I’m like “Okay, I didn’t know I could do that.” So probably one of the most rewarding things was I went to a competition, so I did a competition. And if you think CrossFit is intimidating, then do a CrossFit competition with other people who are much buffer than me.

John: Right. You wore shirts, they were skins.

Jason: That’s right, shirts and skins. Five guys with shirts off, me I keep my shirt on.

John: Right, I had two shirts on.

Jason: Right. And two shirts on, tuck it into your shorts, you’ll really get beat up after class. So I did the competition and I never would have done a weightlifting competition. This is a joke even to just say it out loud that I did a completion. People are thinking, “Wow, he’s awesome” and no, I’m not. I don’t do weightlifting competitions.

John: Go to greenapplepodcast.com and you could see a picture of Jason and that will shatter all of your dreams, ladies.

Jason: Right, sure, but I’ll have my shirt on so they won’t know.

John: Right, that’s true. My picture is just as bad, don’t worry about it.

Jason: You got a suit, you got a tie on. See, I don’t even own a tie.

John: It’s all an act. The tie distracts from being as skinny as the tie, like that’s all that is. Yeah, it’s bad.

I guess so through your work, do you talk about this with clients or coworkers, or what have you?

Jason: Like CrossFit?

John: Yeah, CrossFit, and things like that.

Jason: Yeah, I do. Some of my clients CrossFit, I’ve actually done CrossFit with some of my clients so that’s kind of cool. It’s kind of a bonding community thing, the CrossFit community’s actually pretty deep so if you get in… Actually, you speak a different language, they have a lot of different words nobody understands that only you know if you’re in the community. So you can speak that common language with people.

So yeah, I have done it with other people. I write a lot — not a lot but I have written blog posts about CrossFit. Like for example, so I was in a workout a couple months ago and we were jumping up on top of boxes, we do box jumps. And I was tired so when you’re tired you sit down.

John: On the box.

Jason: Right. And that is a no, no. Well, my coach came over and he cussed me up and down and said if I ever see you sitting down in the middle of a workout again, you will give me like 15 penalty Burpees or something like that. Burpees are another god-awful exercise they make you do which a lot–

John: Yeah. This is all going back to like 5th Grade gym class.

Jason: This is like when you have to change in front of all the guys and you’re like just dreading when you have–

John: Climbing a rope to the top and doing the peg board.

Jason: Yeah, all that stuff that you can’t do–

John: And then we all get under a parachute in the middle of the gym.

Jason: Yeah, all that. See, it’s all coming back.

John: So CrossFit is just 5th Grade elementary PE.

Jason: It is! Except the coaches are not fat guys in tight shorts–

John: Yes, and they’re cussing.

Jason: Right. My coaches in the 5th Grade were just these enormous fat guys in tight stretchy gym shorts–

John: Those like softball shorts.

Jason: Yeah. They’re real short so we’re like “Hey, coach, don’t bend over anymore”, that kind of–

John: Right, right.

Jason: But our coaches are always fit, they can always do more than we can actually. That’s a little difference.

John: That is funny, that’s very funny. So when it comes to sharing it with clients or coworkers, do you do it consciously or is it more of just something that comes up organically?

Jason: Yeah, that kind of stuff is organic especially when I’m writing blog posts about or something like that, it just so mirrors business. Like I wrote a blog post about that experience of sitting down on a workout, and so I’m like “Hey, you can’t sit down while you’re building a business. You have to always be growing and learning and pushing yourselves. And I’m your coach, I’m the guy who tells you to not sit down. Though you think you’re tired, you can actually do more.”

So yeah, it’s subconscious, CrossFit. It just so aligns with a lot of struggles we have in business because running a business is very hard to do. If you’re doing it right, you’re going to run into some struggles; if you’re experimenting, trying new things, it’s going to be hard. And so this was about not sitting down while you’re doing these hard things.

John: Yeah, that’s great. And then by you sharing that blog post, then it opens the door for that conversation for people that read it because they’re like “Oh, I do CrossFit, too!” And then you guys start to talk and it comes up and you guys use all your secret code words–

Jason: That’s right. We use code words and we feel at home with each other.

John: Yeah, and then you do some Burpees–

Jason: That’s right. We’re virtual though so we have to do Burpees over Skype–

John: Right. “I want video of this.”

Jason: Yeah. “I want to make sure you don’t sit down.”

Jason: Yeah. Just put the phone down and be like, “Uh, rrr!” You’re not doing them, you’re not doing them. You’re just grunting right now, that’s what you’re doing. That’s hilarious. So it sounds like by opening up and sharing, certainly stronger relationships with clients, for sure.

Jason: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

John: Absolutely, yeah. So I guess a question that I often ponder because I have the time is just when it comes to opening up and sharing, how much is it on the individual versus how much is it on the organization to create that culture. Or is it somewhere in the middle or lean one way.

Jason: So is that like us building culture in our own firm?

John: Yeah. Maybe for people that maybe work for a Big Four or a large company type of a thing. How much is it on you to just make it happen or is it on “Well, I’m not going to do anything because the culture isn’t this way.”

Jason: I think building a culture in a company is a top-down experience. So I think it does come down from the owners, for sure. But here’s the thing, each new person that you bring into the firm and each person that you let go from the firm all changes the culture. So it’s like the owner has to be intentional to drive what culture they want to have in a firm or in any company, but the people have a say-so too in what the culture becomes. And so I think that’s why hiring is a really important thing that you do because each person you bring in is going to direct and change the culture of that company in a certain way.

But the way we do it is we onboard new employees. So we’re bringing in new employees soon and we onboard them. What that means is we do a presentation to them to say “Here’s the things that make us have this purpose statement. And because of that purpose statement, here are our five internal core values and here’s what will make you a successful person. Here’s what might not make you successful in our firm as a virtual employee.” And so we kind of let them know what the culture is. We even tell them, hey, our clients love GIFs, those little animated things, and we send these through email. We talk about that stuff where it’s important to use those because it’s a representation of who we are as a firm.

And so that’s us directing the culture. But then we give a lot of freedom to virtual employees because you can’t manage them or control them, you have no clue what they’re doing, honestly. So you give a lot of freedom to them and they get to kind of be as forward or direct or soft-spoken as they want and they help build the culture on each person.

John: Yeah, that’s a good point. It certainly makes it easier when the person at the top, whether it’s a partner, vice president, or whatever, opens it up and says “Hey, on the weekends I am on a band” and then everyone else is like “Oh, well if you’re opening up then I can too”, like “This is awesome, I’m in a band as well” or “I do whatever it is that you love to do” — that certainly makes it a lot easier when it comes like that.

Jason: Yes. So we’ll talk about CrossFit and the team’s like no, they’re not doing CrossFit, so they think I’m crazy. But I love it.

John: But they know who you are, at least, now.

Jason: That’s right, yeah, lay it out there.

John: Yeah, that is cool. And so I guess a lot of people listening obviously stereotypical accounting, that stereotype of people being close to the vest and not wanting to open up unfortunately isn’t always true. But for those that are maybe scared to share their hobby, their passion, what barriers might exist for people and then do you have any words of encouragement for those that are kind of scared to open up.

Jason: There’s a lot of fear in all of that, right? I know fear but fear drives a lot of our behaviors as people in general, right? I mean, you just started a podcast. I’ve started podcast, that’s a scary thing to do, honestly. People don’t know about starting a podcast but you’re like, will people listen? Do I know how to record the stupid thing? And you don’t know the answers to any of it.

John: I hope we’re getting any of this, to be honest with you.

Jason: That’s right, is this thing on.

John: Right, right. But then again, I’ve also told jokes in front of several hundred people at a time so I’m like, “Ah, it’s probably not the worst thing that’s happened.”

Jason: Yeah, you probably standing up and telling jokes is a huge fear thing you got to surmount.

John: It’s either that or swim with sharks, and I was like “Ah, I’ll just do comedy, 300 times a year, how about that?” And yeah, so after you do that eventually you just become numb to whatever.

Jason: And so you’ll try anything. We need more people who will try anything in this world.

John: Right, or even just try one thing. And then that’s how it starts is you do one and before you know it you’re throwing trees around in South Carolina.

Jason: Right. Well, did you ever bum out when you were like doing comedy?

John: This is my podcast, first of all, the questions go to you. I’m kidding, man, I’m kidding. But yeah, absolutely, man, because when you’re new everyone is terrible. Whoever your favorite comedian is was terrible back in the day, so they all were, all of them. Foxworthy, Brian Regan, Chris Rock, all of them, terrible. Louis C.K., terrible, Seinfeld, terrible. That’s how it is because you’re not supposed to be good.

So when I first started it was more clever than funny because it’s all clean. So it was clever, it wasn’t funny. And then that doesn’t make people laugh, clever isn’t funny. And so then you just learn or you quit.

Jason: Well, people don’t come to see a clever guy. They don’t say “Hey, you want to go to the club and watch a clever guy?” Nobody pays tickets to do that. You typically want to go see a comedian.

John: I found that out because the guy right after me is talking about midgets and driving through a drive-thru or whatever and people are peeing in their pants, lying on the floor. And I’m in the back like “He didn’t even write this, he just told a story from last night. This is terrible.”

Jason: Yeah, it’s not even clever.

John: No, it’s not even clever, exactly. This is garbage, I’m going to go CrossFit. But this is awesome, man, thank you so much. This is really good. But I feel like we’ve gotten to know you pretty well but I don’t feel like we get to know you totally until I do these 17 rapid fire questions.

Jason: Oh, boy.

John: Yeah, yeah, these are super intense, you’re going to think CrossFit is easy the next time you go in.

Jason: This is like a CrossFit workout.

John: This is, this is a CrossFit for your brain.

Jason: Bring it.

John: So here we go, 17 super fast. Ready. Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jason: Star Wars, man.

John: Oh, yeah. Sudoku or crossword puzzle?

Jason: Crossword puzzle. I don’t know how to play Sudoku.

John: That’s the accountant in you. That’s how I do my taxes actually is like a Sudoku, like “Oh, there’s no 7 in this column.”

Here’s a good one for you, your favorite band.

Jason: Oh, Porcupine Tree.

John: Okay. And where are they out of?

Jason: The UK.

John: Nice. Pens or pencils?

Jason: Oh, pens.

John: No mistakes. You’re solid.

Jason: That’s right.

John: Balance sheet or income statement.

Jason: Income statement. It’s got the profit on it, man.

John: Jeans or khakis? Or pajama pants, I guess, is probably appropriate.

Jason: Yeah, pajama pants is better for me.

John: Favorite number.

Jason: Seven.

John: That’s mine, too. Why, you?

Jason: Dude, I just picked that right out of my butt. I’ve never been asked your favorite number.

John: Really? As an accountant, you should ask all new hires this question. Favorite sports team.

Jason: The Carolina Gamecocks.

John: Okay. Right click or left click?

Jason: Left click.

John: PC or Mac?

Jason: Mac.

John: Movie that makes you cry.

Jason: You’ve Got Mail.

John: Oh, wow! We’re going back in the day.

Jason: Back in the day, baby.

John: Your AOL in it.

Jason: That’s right.

John: Favorite color?

Jason: Blue.

John: Least favorite color?

Jason: Pink.

John: Yeah, it’s solid. Very boy-girl answer for you.

Jason: That’s right. I’m trying to stick with the boy-girl end.

John: This is the hardest part of your week, man.

Jason: I know!

John: Your favorite ice cream flavor?

Jason: Oh, cookie dough.

John: Oh, that’s solid. That’s mine, yeah, yeah.

Jason: Good stuff.

John: Favorite comedian?

Jason: John Garrett.

John: Oh, you’re too kind.

Jason: Come on, I did good.

John: You’re already on the show. You don’t have to kiss up already.

Jason: And a great guy too.

John: Oh, yeah, never heard of that guy. No, I’m kidding. Another good guy, very good guy.

Jason: He’s clever, he’s very clever.

John: Here’s one, boxers or briefs?

Jason: Oh, definitely boxers, man.

John: Yeah. And here’s the last one, the favorite thing you own.

Jason: Probably my iPhone.

John: Yeah, you can’t go anywhere without it.

Jason: Yeah, I can’t go anywhere without it.

John: You’re just Mac all around, man, they own you. Well, thank you so much, I really appreciate it. And where can everybody find you online?

Jason: A few places. So at Twitter, @jasonmblumer, is a good place to find me. My firm site is blumercpas.com. That’s plural, not singular, so it’s got a s on the end.

John: Which is more than one.

Jason: That’s right. It’s more than one, dang it, so it’s got an s. And thriveal.com and nobody can spell Thriveal so it’s the word “thrive” and then add -al at the end, thriveal.com. A lot of people pronounce it “thrivial” which is fine, yeah, very thrivial.

John: Whatever you want to call it, just go to thriveal.com.

Jason: That’s right, that’s our main places.

John: And there are tons of stuff there on Thriveal for people to listen to. Several podcasts, all kinds of cool stuff going on there.

Jason: Oh, yeah. Blogs, good stuff.

John: But thank you so much, man. I’ll let you get to your workout and I really appreciate you being on my show, man.

Jason: Awesome being here. Thanks for having me, John.

John: I hope you enjoyed hearing what Jason had to say. That’s such a great point about overcoming fear and we need more people to try anything because hey, it just might be amazing, like an accountant who does CrossFit.

Go to greenapplepodcast.com for some pictures of Jason in action and a bunch of links to his stuff including his Thriveal Network. And I’m so grateful for the five-star reviews on iTunes and Stitcher. That definitely helps others to know that they need to listen to this crazy fun show. So now, go out and be a green apple.