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John Garrett [00:00:00]:
Hey, this is John Garrett. I’m passionate about making work more human, especially in this age of AI. I don’t just host this podcast. I also help organizations put people first through my keynote speaking, coaching, and What’s Your “And”?™ implementation programs. To learn more or to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, I invite you to join the movement at www.whatsyourand.com. Now let’s jump into this week’s conversation.

Jackie Meyer [00:00:21]:
Hi, I’m Jackie Meyer, and when I am not living the pura vida lifestyle in Costa Rica, I am listening to Jon Garrett on What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:34]:
Welcome to episode 717 of What’s Your “And”?. This is Jon Garrett, and each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their And, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title? And if you like what show’s about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes Noble Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.WhatsYourAnd.com. The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon.

John Garrett [00:01:20]:
Thank you so much for those. It’s silly how much they matter. More importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. If you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. Please don’t forget to hit subscribe so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Jackie Meyer. She’s the founder and president of Tax Plan IQ and the author of The Balanced Millionaire – Advisor Edition. The regular edition for everyone else is coming out soon, and now she’s with me here today.

John Garrett [00:01:54]:
Jackie, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Jackie Meyer [00:01:59]:
Yeah, I’ve been looking forward to it. Thank you.

John Garrett [00:02:01]:
This is going to be awesome. I have 17 rapid-fire questions. Get to know Jackie right out of the gate. All right, you’re buckled in, you’re ready. Okay, this is a fun one. Uh, favorite color?

Jackie Meyer [00:02:10]:
Purple.

John Garrett [00:02:10]:
Purple. Okay, solid. There you go. How about a least favorite color?

Jackie Meyer [00:02:15]:
Maybe black. People can’t see behind me, but my entire home office is black, right?

John Garrett [00:02:21]:
Well, you know, hey, maybe it’s, uh, subconscious just popped in and was like, hey, maybe, uh, color it up a little bit.

Jackie Meyer [00:02:29]:
Yeah, for sure. It came like this, and it’s like a mini library, which is cool, but it’s It’s real dark.

John Garrett [00:02:36]:
No, no, that works. That works. Are you more early bird or night owl?

Jackie Meyer [00:02:41]:
Neither. Oh my gosh. I don’t like waking up early and I love going to bed early.

John Garrett [00:02:46]:
That’s awesome. I love it. Like 10 to 2 and we’re good. Like, that’s— yeah, there we go.

Jackie Meyer [00:02:52]:
My husband makes fun of me because I’m like, he’s like, you go to bed at 8 o’clock, get the kids down for bed. I’m out. I need my bath time, my alone time. Yeah. No, there you go.

John Garrett [00:03:04]:
That totally counts. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Jackie Meyer [00:03:09]:
I really like Ryan Reynolds. He’s hilarious. I’m thinking about female. I don’t know. I mean, Oprah is not known as much for acting, but I love Oprah. So I’ll go with that.

John Garrett [00:03:21]:
No, that totally counts. Absolutely. Are you more oceans or mountains?

Jackie Meyer [00:03:25]:
Ocean. I love the ocean. You know, we’re building a house down in Costa Rica right now. And my husband loves the mountains. He’s currently skiing while we’re about to hit a freeze here in Dallas-Fort Worth. So TB if I survive.

John Garrett [00:03:39]:
There you go. There you go. Okay. No pressure on me if things go sideways during the interview.

Jackie Meyer [00:03:47]:
Right.

John Garrett [00:03:48]:
How about toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Jackie Meyer [00:03:53]:
Over.

John Garrett [00:03:53]:
Over. Yeah. All right.

Jackie Meyer [00:03:55]:
I hate under.

John Garrett [00:03:57]:
I’ve had people where they say that they’ll change it if it’s under.

Jackie Meyer [00:04:01]:
No, I’m too lazy for that. I’m just like, we’ll grumble about it.

John Garrett [00:04:05]:
That’s actually more fun. The passive-aggressive, like, you know, comments. There you go. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jackie Meyer [00:04:15]:
Star Wars for sure.

John Garrett [00:04:16]:
Yeah. Yeah, I’m same. And your computer, PC or a Mac?

Jackie Meyer [00:04:19]:
PC. But I’m really jealous of people with ChatGPT Atlas browser, which is only available for Mac because I was just literally trying to get my Windows browser to do all this agentic stuff for me and it’s not there yet, so it’s driving me nuts.

John Garrett [00:04:33]:
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I hear you on that. Uh, do you have a favorite cartoon maybe as a kid?

Jackie Meyer [00:04:38]:
No, not really.

John Garrett [00:04:39]:
No? Okay, fair enough. Well, you were in bed probably when they were playing in the morning.

Jackie Meyer [00:04:43]:
Sleeping. You know, my dad the other day, who actually works with us at TaxSlut IQ, he made a joke and he was like, yeah, you were always a very sleepy child, but I figured it was because you were really smart and you just had to process a lot more information. I was like, I like that answer.

John Garrett [00:04:59]:
Can you tell my husband that the next time he comments? How about more sweet or savory?

Jackie Meyer [00:05:06]:
Oh, I’m gonna go with sweet, but I’m pretty even keel.

John Garrett [00:05:11]:
Okay. All right. That works. More diamonds or pearls?

Jackie Meyer [00:05:15]:
Diamonds.

John Garrett [00:05:15]:
Diamonds. There you go. Sparkly. And since you have the, uh, accounting background, more balance sheet or income statement?

Jackie Meyer [00:05:21]:
Oh, income statement all the way.

John Garrett [00:05:23]:
Okay. There you go. Well, I guess that’s where the tax comes from.

Jackie Meyer [00:05:26]:
Exactly. That’s important.

John Garrett [00:05:28]:
Yeah. We got 3 more. Uh, do you have a favorite number?

Jackie Meyer [00:05:31]:
Oh Lord, uh, you know, 6, 7 comes to mind, or what, 41 comes to mind. I don’t know, I’ve been, you know, infiltrated by the children, right? Oh, but I do like 9, 12 because that’s my birthday, and I’ve been seeing it like every day. I keep seeing it, and I looked it up on ChatGPT, and it’s like, yeah, that’s— you’re just like associating it to your birthday, it’s not that big of a deal. But I think it’s cool.

John Garrett [00:05:57]:
No, it is, it definitely is. I mean, the fact that you happen to look at a clock or you happen to see it— I mean, you see numbers all the time. And then those are the ones that pop up for you. Absolutely. That’s fantastic. All right. How about a favorite season? Summer, winter, spring, or fall?

Jackie Meyer [00:06:10]:
Well, in Texas we don’t have seasons.

John Garrett [00:06:12]:
That’s a good point.

Jackie Meyer [00:06:13]:
If I was in anywhere in the world, I would go with like summer in California.

John Garrett [00:06:20]:
Oh, okay. All right. That works. Yeah, that’s good. Yeah. Cause summer in Texas is, ooh, uh, that’s rough. And, uh, last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Jackie Meyer [00:06:30]:
My bathtub.

John Garrett [00:06:31]:
Oh, okay. There you go. Nice. Did it come with the house or did you put it in or?

Jackie Meyer [00:06:37]:
We remodeled it actually. It’s like a really cool like copper tub and I use it like every day. Sometimes even if I’m having a rough day, twice a day, I’m like in there. It’s like my zen place.

John Garrett [00:06:48]:
So yeah, that’s very cool. Nice. Okay, so let’s talk travel and I’m guessing world travel since you dropped Costa Rica earlier. So did you grow up traveling or is it something you got into later?

Jackie Meyer [00:07:01]:
I was raised by a single mom that had anxiety about everything. The weather in particular was a huge deal. So we did not travel much at all. My boyfriend, when I was going out of high school, his family went on a ski trip to Beaver Creek, Colorado and invited me. And that was kind of like my first big— maybe my first flight. I don’t know. But yeah. So, and then I fell in love with it.

Jackie Meyer [00:07:28]:
Like I love seeing different cultures. Especially Costa Rica. The pura vida vibe is so amazing there. I would choose like the culture of the people and like how generous and thankful they are for things over like the most perfect beach any day.

John Garrett [00:07:43]:
Ah, yeah. Because I mean, that’s, it’s just the vibe, you know, that’s around all the time, you know? And yeah, Costa Rica’s pretty nice. I’ve been down there 3 times and yeah, that you’re right. I mean, it’s just, especially when you get out of, you know, the San Jose, you get out of, you know, the big city, uh, then it’s— yeah, I mean, then— yeah, because the big city is not amazing, but, uh, but you fly in there and then you, you go.

Jackie Meyer [00:08:06]:
Yeah, it’s like when I went to Spain. I went to Spain in my undergrad and we stayed in the city, and I was so like immature, you know, uneducated. I’m like, oh, this is gross, like there’s fumes, and like I didn’t expect any kind of city vibe. And then we went more closer to the beach and it was way better. But yeah, I felt kind of dumb because you just don’t really expect that like polluting city vibe that a lot of these countries have. And you know, they’re all like that.

John Garrett [00:08:35]:
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. I mean, yeah, because you’re on vacation and you think it’s gonna be Narnia and magical, and it’s like, oh wait, what? Other countries have crappy parts too? Oh, okay, cool. You know, but like, you know, it does make you sometimes appreciate, you know, the United States a little bit when you’ve been to other countries and seen other things. Uh, but also appreciate, you know, the other places you go to as well. And, and so Spain, Costa Rica— do you have some other favorite places that you’ve, you’ve been to?

Jackie Meyer [00:09:01]:
Oh, Greece was beautiful. You know, you stay right on the mountainside or hillside. That was just gorgeous. Probably like my favorite view experience ever. St. John. Um, we try to travel like every summer. I set a goal like 6, 7 years ago for us to travel like for 2 to 4 weeks every summer.

Jackie Meyer [00:09:25]:
My husband actually took like a lesser job at Fidelity as a financial advisor. To be able to take a sabbatical and do that, which was really exciting for us. So we go a lot of places this summer. We’re going to Antigua. We’re headed to the mountains skiing next month. So yeah, I’ve been a lot of places. I haven’t been to Asia or Africa or South America, which would be really cool. Have you?

John Garrett [00:09:48]:
Yeah, I’ve been to Africa, to South Africa and Kenya and Zanzibar. Africa is huge. Huge. Like, I can’t even— it’s bigger than big. The width of Africa at the top there is 2.5 times the United States. You know, like when I was over there was when like Ebola was in West Africa. I was over in Kenya, but it’s so far away. Like, it’s so far away.

John Garrett [00:10:16]:
And people were like, oh, you better be careful. I’m like, no, you better be careful because there’s one in the US and that’s way closer than where I am.

Jackie Meyer [00:10:23]:
That was in Dallas, right? That’s where— here. That was here in Dallas where I live.

John Garrett [00:10:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. So even closer for you, right? You know, but it It’s so great. It’s so diverse there. You know, we say Africa as if it’s a country and it’s, it’s not at all. It’s pretty fantastic. Pretty cool. And then just 2 years ago, I guess, went to Singapore and Bali and that was my first Asia experience.

Jackie Meyer [00:10:45]:
Very cool. Yeah. I would love to go Bali. That sounds amazing. Oh, and Australia. We haven’t been to Australia yet, so I don’t know. We’ll think like, I got a lot of different entrepreneurial ventures going. I’m like, next big windfall, I’ll take the whole fam to either Africa or Australia.

John Garrett [00:11:02]:
So, and it’s, and it sounds like it’s a family thing because, I mean, your husband chose a, a role based on our, our aunts. So that, that’s how important the travel is, is, you know, hey, you know, I’m willing to take a role that’s a little bit different and maybe a lower pay so that then we can go and do these things as a family and go and travel. And because that’s how much it matters as a human being, you know, those pieces. So, so is that, is that the case? Do you feel like Oh, for sure.

Jackie Meyer [00:11:28]:
Yeah. We, we were like, this is number one priority that, that we get to do this every year and that we spend this time together as a family. And my 12-year-old daughter knows Spanish better than me already. I mean, I’ve forgotten most of it. I essentially minored in it in college, but you know, Duolingo helps a lot for that stuff.

John Garrett [00:11:47]:
That’s, that’s fantastic though. And yeah. And then for your kids to be able to see, see that and to be able to, you know, share in that. Experience is pretty awesome. Do you feel like the travel and, and all that plays into work at all?

Jackie Meyer [00:12:02]:
Well, I time block, which, you know, a lot of people are like, I can’t time block. I’m, I’m a hippie accountant. I don’t do that. Or, you know, you can’t pin me down. So I’m all about like planning your year out ahead. I mean, we plan everything ahead and that personal stuff has to come first and travel has to come first because I’ve hit the opposite where I’m a pure workaholic and Nothing comes before that because I used to own a CPA firm.

John Garrett [00:12:28]:
Yeah.

Jackie Meyer [00:12:28]:
So yeah, we kind of like completely restructured our lives around that to make sure that we enjoy it.

John Garrett [00:12:35]:
How much does it matter? You know, the traveling Jackie versus the work is the priority Jackie?

Jackie Meyer [00:12:42]:
Gosh, it’s probably like, I mean, it was part of this huge path of mine to go from like burnout and workaholism and almost like burning out of the industry, the accounting industry. When I transformed my firm. And so, you know, it kind of became a non-negotiable at that point several years ago.

John Garrett [00:13:01]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, like where you’re just not alive, you’re just like going through the motions, just doing the work because you think you have to, or this is what success looks like, or what society tells me I’m supposed to do or whatever.

Jackie Meyer [00:13:13]:
For sure. Yeah. But of course, like I’ve kind of learned the opposite thing this last year in 2025. I took a lot of speaking gigs at accounting conferences and I kind of realized like I need to guard my time when it comes to that side of it. And so like, I, this year I don’t have any plan yet, which is insane, but I really don’t want to go back to Vegas for like the billionth time.

John Garrett [00:13:38]:
Right. Amen to that.

Jackie Meyer [00:13:40]:
It’s too much there.

John Garrett [00:13:42]:
Absolutely. Yeah. But I mean, all that is work you, you know, like, and I mean, you know, even if it’s speaking or it’s doing the actual grunt work in the trenches or whatever, I mean, it’s all work you where, you know, traveling you is totally different.

Jackie Meyer [00:13:56]:
Oh, for sure. It’s like night and day. I’m like on or off, you know, and I love it. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:14:02]:
Yeah. And it’s just wild how, you know, we, it’s such a slippery slope to allow ourselves to get into work you and allow that to consume 100% of us. It’ll suck up every free minute you have in a heartbeat. And so it’s great to hear that you sit down and block it out a year in advance of like, okay, these 2 weeks, these 4 weeks, like Work you, go take a nap because I’m done. Yeah, I got real Jackie coming out to play. Like, we’re going to go have some fun. We’re going to go travel. We’re going to see some things.

John Garrett [00:14:32]:
And, and then, yeah. And I would imagine that like planning a trip and, you know, adjusting to how things happen or whatever, I would imagine that those are skills that come up at work too. I mean, there’s got to be a muscle that you develop when you’re traveling.

Jackie Meyer [00:14:46]:
Yeah, for sure. I lean a lot on my assistant to help me with that though.

John Garrett [00:14:49]:
Oh, well, there you go. That’s awesome. There’s that too. You know, that’s, that totally works. And do you feel like you’ve created connections over the travel or, or thing, you know, the, the other parts of, of you besides the work you, has that come into play, you know, with colleagues or clients?

Jackie Meyer [00:15:08]:
I think one of the best things is like having different travel buddies, like families. We have one in particular that have like kids the same exact age as mine, which are 9 and 12, and they’re the same gender and everything. So they’re like besties. And then we can hang out with the parents and It’s a lot of fun. I mean, the kids will just entertain themselves and we really don’t have to do anything.

John Garrett [00:15:32]:
Oh, that’s even better. That’s amazing. Colleagues become a little bit of friends then, you know, which isn’t a bad thing either, you know, all vice versa. Uh, I would imagine that this makes work better and, and all that.

Jackie Meyer [00:15:43]:
Yeah, for sure. But another side of it is like Mark, my husband, and I also dedicate time for just he and I to get away. So like there’s this really cool luxury tents that are about 2 hours west of DFW called Palo Alto 32, and it is just so amazing. Like, you feel like you’re on a safari, like, in Texas, which is, you know, nice if you want to head to Africa someday, right?

John Garrett [00:16:09]:
Yeah, yeah, it’s a good practice run. There you go.

Jackie Meyer [00:16:11]:
Yeah, so we go like every quarter for at least one night, and it’s a really, really great getaway.

John Garrett [00:16:17]:
That’s fantastic. And you could drive, so you don’t even have to rely on the airlines or the weather or who knows what. Yeah, you could just—

Jackie Meyer [00:16:23]:
Exactly. Yeah. And you don’t want to have to rely on those things at all.

John Garrett [00:16:27]:
No, that’s awesome. And so is, uh, throughout your career, has the travel side of you come up? Have you talked about it freely or has it been like just more recently where you’re like, hey, this part matters, I should talk about it a little bit?

Jackie Meyer [00:16:38]:
I think most people know that, uh, I love Costa Rica. I mention it a lot. My professional thought leadership is really focused when I speak around getting out of burnout. And so it kind of aligns with, you know, what you’re trying to do, because you do have to focus on your and to, to do that. Like, you lose all that, you lose yourself, and you lose your and when you get swept into the just constant work, work, work.

John Garrett [00:17:04]:
So yeah, I mean, I guess, does it matter? I mean, you know, having an and, or, or that side of it? I mean, nah. At episode 717, suddenly it comes out, none of this is real, John. Like, it’s—

Jackie Meyer [00:17:21]:
I feel like I’m being led in this direction. Of course it matters.

John Garrett [00:17:25]:
Well, no, but in your own words, in your own experience, you know, like, I mean, how does it matter to you?

Jackie Meyer [00:17:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I’m speaking, I, I tell the story of like when my health really faded and I actually was like sitting right here in the middle of the night, prepping tax returns in my CPA firm. And I stood up, I like fell over. My health was so bad. And I was just like, I can’t do this anymore. I’ve hit like my rock bottom at my firm. And the changes just had to involve refining myself.

Jackie Meyer [00:17:58]:
And I’m still doing that. I mean, lifetime learner. And so I’m obsessed with like reading and learning and stuff. And so that can naturally accidentally kind of get you back into work ideas, right?

John Garrett [00:18:12]:
Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Jackie Meyer [00:18:13]:
As an entrepreneur.

John Garrett [00:18:14]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, it’s not like, hey, that side goes away, you know, it’s—

Jackie Meyer [00:18:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. But I also love innovating, right? And so innovation I get to do at work. So I’m almost like I’ve tried to find these ways to like do the things I personally love in my work, which is the best of both worlds, right?

John Garrett [00:18:32]:
It really is. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, but I mean, wow. I mean, golly, I mean, to just be working, working, working and then think that this is success and this is it. And then to like just fall over and pass out, like, just like, holy crap, what am I doing with my life? Like, this is crazy, you know?

Jackie Meyer [00:18:48]:
Exactly. Yeah. And I, I get, I care so much. I care so much about— for some reason, I have this passion for other accountants to not have to go through that. So, I mean, that’s actually the basis of the book, The Balanced Millionaire. It used to be called The Balance Sheet of Life, but only accountants really understood that.

John Garrett [00:19:04]:
That’s true. That’s true.

Jackie Meyer [00:19:06]:
Yeah. Like, have you heard of like the balance wheel?

John Garrett [00:19:09]:
I have, yes.

Jackie Meyer [00:19:10]:
Okay. Yeah. A lot of people haven’t. And so it kind of like is the balance wheel on crack is how I like to describe it because The balance wheel will tell you like, oh, you’re looking lumpy in this side of your life, but it doesn’t necessarily let you set a goal to fix it. And so I’m kind of taking that further to be like, if your finances are a 10 out of 10, everything else is probably lower because it’s that really, really little optimization of different things that you have to do. And so you’re figuring out what the lowest category is in your life. It could be travel or health or whatever. Right.

Jackie Meyer [00:19:47]:
And then you’re setting like one goal to work towards that month or that quarter to get that lever up. And so I found a lot of success with people doing that because we’re so overwhelmed with information and things that we have to set these like micro goals to be like, okay, I’m going to work on this side of me. Right.

John Garrett [00:20:06]:
Yeah. I love that so much. Yeah. Because I mean, people don’t even realize that there are these other sides of them. Or these other sides matter just as much as work and finances and whatever you think is success. You know, these things matter too. And then also too, people want to go from 0 to 60 in, you know, a week. And it’s like, no, no, if it’s, if you’re at 0, like there’s no way.

John Garrett [00:20:29]:
I mean, you’re going to pull a muscle, like trying to do this, you know, like what the hell, like baby steps, like just a little bit at a time, you know, like just a little bit. So that’s great to encourage them. Just move the notch one mark. That’s it. Like, we’re not going to the 10. We’re going from 1 to 2. That’s it. You know, and then it’s going to take a little while, especially those lower ones, I would imagine, because inertia has kept you from doing anything.

John Garrett [00:20:53]:
So those are the hardest ones, probably are the first ones, I would imagine.

Jackie Meyer [00:20:56]:
Yeah, for sure. It really all comes back to just setting appropriate boundaries. And I mean, it’s like boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. You have to say no. I love like Dr. Henry Cloud’s book called, guess what, Boundaries. It’s like so eye-opening because we’re all raised very differently with like codependency and like how your parents raised you and like how they interjected in your life versus like what they stayed out of. And it’s all jacked up.

Jackie Meyer [00:21:24]:
We’re all jacked up.

John Garrett [00:21:25]:
We’re all jacked up. There you go. That’s what the show should be called.

Jackie Meyer [00:21:29]:
We’re all jacked up with Jackie Meyer. We’re jacked up with Jackie Meyer.

John Garrett [00:21:34]:
There you go. There you go.

Jackie Meyer [00:21:36]:
Okay, well, you now have a co-host, John.

John Garrett [00:21:39]:
I love it. And if you don’t think you’re jacked up, Jackie will jack you up. So here you go. Like, it’s like I came in fine, and when I left, I’m like a mess. Like, oh my God, like, this is crazy.

Jackie Meyer [00:21:53]:
Well, we— a lot of people are in denial, you know. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, if you talk a lot about burnout and stuff with, you know, your concepts. I’m sure you do. And And people don’t want to read it. They see that word and then they’re like, skip, skip, skip. And so you have to do this whole like, give them ice cream, but really you’re giving them broccoli. What is that marketing thing, right? Like, I always think about it like that. You’re like, they need broccoli, but they want ice cream.

Jackie Meyer [00:22:19]:
So how do we make burnout like sexy and fun? I don’t know.

John Garrett [00:22:24]:
So you’re exactly right. I mean, it’s, you know, your ego steps in and doesn’t allow you because any of that is an attack on the ego. And so the ego’s whole goal is to defend itself. Self and to justify all this crazy behavior and irrational thought to be like, no, no, you have to, this is necessary, all this. So anything that challenges that, it just shoots it down right away. And so that’s where you have to pull the guard down and then finally get in to, no, no, just relax. Who are you? Like, what’s up? You know, like, and, uh, and you know, and, and then finally when people do just take that breath and relax and, and then they share you know, just the human side of them, even just a little bit. And that’s where what’s your and is just that first little baby step below surface level.

John Garrett [00:23:11]:
Then all of a sudden, like, they smile and they’re alive and they’re showing you pictures on their phone and like all this where, you know, the work them was not really— I mean, sometimes they smile, but sometimes not. I mean, you know, like sometimes not, but every time you’re talking about traveling, you’re alive. Like you’re like, every time you met, I mean, I don’t think you could say Costa Rica without smiling just the way you— I mean, your mouth has to Rica, like, I mean, you know, it’s like, Like you have to smile. It’s like saying cheese, you know, like it’s right. You know, I think it’s great. And, uh, and you know, the work that you’re doing as well is awesome. So we’re all pulling the wagon in the same direction to just let people remember, like, you’re a human being, you know, first and foremost, whatever job title you have is secondary or third or fourth or 10th, you know, but being a human being is the priority and the core and really the central Piece of why, I mean, who you are, you know, type of thing.

Jackie Meyer [00:24:05]:
So you have a similar story, but I mean, I essentially just became a CPA because I wanted to make sure I could take care of myself in life. I mean, it was like, no one’s like, oh, I’m so passionate about taxes. Right. Although I did actually, but yeah, like I was raised by a single teacher mom and I wanted to take care of myself. I knew the business world would do that. I hear that a lot from other CPAs. What’s your story?

John Garrett [00:24:32]:
That is true. Yeah, so my story is, uh, I started out engineering and, uh, I went to Notre Dame and from a tiny— oh yeah, oh no, totally. Like, I was— I had it all mapped. I was really good with Legos and Lincoln Logs, and apparently that doesn’t translate to real physics. So yeah, so I got a D in physics, uh, my second semester. I was I was fast-trained to an F, uh, and I— it’s not like I wasn’t trying. I was going to all the extra stuff with the TAs. I was doing— I mean, I felt so remedial, it was crazy.

John Garrett [00:25:05]:
And so then, uh, midway through second semester, I was like, I’m out. And so then you transfer. I went to business, and then I was like, okay, well, which business program can I have the lowest GPA and still get a good job? Because I mean, we’re coming in, we’re coming in not hot. We’re limping in here. So they said, well, accounting, uh, you know, out of Notre Dame. I mean, it’s— and so I was like, oh, well then. And also, if you undergrad accounting, you can still go into finance, you can still go into IT, you can still go in. And so I was like, oh, so I’m deciding, but I’m not really deciding.

John Garrett [00:25:40]:
Like, I’m not getting painted into that corner. Yeah, I can do accounting, but I can still decide later. And so that’s really how it all came about, you know. And then was fortunate enough to, you know, do well and get the PA back up and then get the Big Four job and then leave and then stand-up comedy full-time and then talk to Jackie Meyer 20 years later.

Jackie Meyer [00:26:02]:
So here we are, jacked up.

John Garrett [00:26:05]:
Oh, I’m all jacked up. I’m like, there you go.

Jackie Meyer [00:26:08]:
That’s amazing. Yeah, it’s like so crazy. I mean, imagine if kids were exposed to their end and not forced into these like crazy like hobbies. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

John Garrett [00:26:22]:
Oh, you got to do baseball because you’re gonna be a professional baseball It’s like, no, like, maybe not.

Jackie Meyer [00:26:27]:
It’s like if they knew their and better, then they could tie that better back to what they love as like a work passion too. There’s just such a huge disconnect there.

John Garrett [00:26:39]:
Yeah, I mean, it can be interwoven into work or not.

Jackie Meyer [00:26:43]:
Oh yeah, you’re like, don’t stop talking about work.

John Garrett [00:26:45]:
No, no, no, no. But it can because what kind of clients do you go after? Who’s staffed on these projects? Like, you know, all these things play into based on your end, what kind of projects you work on. You know, I love 1,000-piece jigsaw puzzles versus I hate 1,000-piece jigsaw puzzles. Okay. Well, you should probably not be on certain kinds of projects if you know, that’s how you’re built. So it can be, but if it’s not the way you’re doing it, where you block the time and you’re intentional about going and doing the things, then that also works. So like, you know, it doesn’t have to be completely interwoven where the that lights you up is also your job, because the number of— the percentage of people that can do that is so low. I mean, really.

John Garrett [00:27:31]:
Yeah.

Jackie Meyer [00:27:32]:
I mean, being able to combine your passion and purpose and profit. Yeah, that’s— it’s a tough one, but it is doable.

John Garrett [00:27:38]:
Oh no, it’s absolutely doable. I’m just saying, don’t beat yourself up over it if you’re listening right now and you’re like, well, there’s no way I can. Okay, that’s cool.

Jackie Meyer [00:27:47]:
Sure. Yeah, for sure.

John Garrett [00:27:48]:
You know, because it’s scary out here on the entrepreneurial side.

Jackie Meyer [00:27:51]:
For sure. It is. It is.

John Garrett [00:27:54]:
We’re wild animals. Uh, you know, like, I mean, there’s a lot of animals in the zoo and they get fed and they get benefits and they get all the things every 2 weeks and they don’t really have to worry about all the things. And then there’s the entrepreneurials that are listening that are, uh, if I don’t hunt, then I don’t eat. So, you know, like we got to figure some stuff out and there’s a lot of lean times and it’s a roller coaster and then it’s, you know, this, this yin and yang and back and forth. And so do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that maybe they have an and and they don’t think anyone cares, or they’ve never really thought that it matters?

Jackie Meyer [00:28:28]:
No one cares.

John Garrett [00:28:29]:
They’re not jacked up yet. How can we jack them up?

Jackie Meyer [00:28:32]:
We haven’t jacked them up yet enough. I really respect the idea that most people, or a lot of people, are not able to necessarily combine their and with with their work as an entrepreneur. But my encouragement would be that you can’t— it can be done because I’ve done it. I’ve kind of reinvented myself with, you know, I’ve had 3 or 4 different businesses and it’s just about kind of like self-reflection, right? So what do you have to say no to, to lean into your strengths and your zone of genius? I do love like Patrick Lencioni’s Zones of Working Geniuses book. Which does help me be like, okay, I love being innovative. How can I bring that in my work? So you’re probably like cringing right now, Jon, because you’re like, that’s not at all what I want to preach.

John Garrett [00:29:23]:
No, no, that’s exactly it though, because there’s other parts to who you are. So how do, how do I bring that in as a human? You know, like there’s other dimensions to me.

Jackie Meyer [00:29:31]:
I like the idea of having separate me’s, right? I’m trying to bring it like all back together, and it can be done, and I encourage others to maybe consider how they do that.

John Garrett [00:29:40]:
Yeah, very much. Another great book, Gay Hendricks, The Big Leap. That’s another great one too.

Jackie Meyer [00:29:45]:
Yes, that is a great one.

John Garrett [00:29:47]:
So yeah, absolutely. No, that’s, that’s, that’s awesome advice. So I feel like it’s only fair though, before we wrap this up, that I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, that we turn the tables here. Jacked up with Jackie Meyer. Thanks for having me on as a guest.

Jackie Meyer [00:30:02]:
How do you feel on a scale of 0 to 10 right now?

John Garrett [00:30:06]:
15 on a nervousness. I can be a little intimidating, but geez, I’m gonna need to go take a nap after this. Like, I’m already like, I love it.

Jackie Meyer [00:30:21]:
I love it. Okay, let’s see, serious questions or funny questions. Let’s see, what do I want to know? I kind of asked you as we went, but I guess like, do you feel like you’ve merged your passions into your work? Work, like we were just talking about.

John Garrett [00:30:37]:
When I was, you know, CPA— I mean, college football, ice cream, travel, love going to concerts, but also was doing stand-up comedy. And then I certainly brought that to work, but not all the time. Like, you don’t want to be the funny guy all the time because that’s annoying. Even when you’re hanging out with comedians, it’s still annoying. But certainly when it came to presentations, when it came to things like— I used that skill to do that. And when I made the leap into full-time stand-up, when your and becomes your job, you still have to have other ands. Like, you have to have something else outside. Like, like, if you were a travel agent, that sounds awesome for a little bit, and then you’re like, you know what, this is enough.

John Garrett [00:31:19]:
Like, I gotta have something else, you know? Like, you gotta balance that out. Like, like, you were in your wheel— your wheel is way too you know, the thing that lights you up, you thought, but it only lights you up because you’re doing it on the side when you want to do it. If you had to travel all the time, you would eventually be like, you know what, I’m not a big fan of like the way people are in airports, you know, like we’re wearing pajamas now and listening to phones on.

Jackie Meyer [00:31:47]:
Everyone’s obsession with pajamas in airports. Like, I could care less. Like, please, news, stop talking about it.

John Garrett [00:31:54]:
Right, right. But also like The phones though, like you, like now that we can’t plug in headphones, like just, they, they listen to these videos on max volume and all this. And it’s like, just, just come on. Like, I don’t want to hear your stuff. Like, we’re all here. Like, we’re all good. Like, just like, let’s go and just be courteous and whatever. And so, yeah.

John Garrett [00:32:12]:
So the more you’re around, like the general public, then the less fun it gets. And then it’s like, but I have to do it because it’s my job and this is how I pay the mortgage and all this. And so, you know, so when it’s for fun, well then it brings you joy all the time. When it becomes your job, sometimes it doesn’t. And so that’s where, having that and of who else are you, these other dimensions to who you are also matter. So, so yeah, when I made that leap and obviously now with the keynote speaking and all that, you know, that’s very much down that path. So, so certainly bringing it back. So yeah, I mean, I like to tell people it’s kind of like a, like a dice where, you know, you roll a die and just because number 2 is up doesn’t mean that 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 went away.

John Garrett [00:32:50]:
They’re still on the die. They’re just not the ones that are up. Up, you know, and then you’re gonna roll it again and a different number is going to be up, but the other parts are still there with you. But the problem is, is that, like I was saying earlier with our ego and whatever, the work you trips the die to always pop up. Like, it’s always work you, it’s always work you. No, no, it’s not. Like, go over to the side a little bit, buddy. Uh, you don’t have to be the lead every time.

Jackie Meyer [00:33:13]:
That reminds me of a really weird thing that I’m kind of obsessed with right now. For the last, like, year, I’ve been trying to figure out how I bridge taxes with unicorns and poop emojis.

John Garrett [00:33:24]:
Oh, okay.

Jackie Meyer [00:33:25]:
Yeah. I’m like kind of obsessed with poop emojis. I’ve got like little poop things here everywhere. I just actually changed my podcast to be able to judge tax strategies and thought leadership stuff, whether it’s a unicorn or poop. And so TBD, fingers crossed, John, if anyone actually likes that or they hate it.

John Garrett [00:33:45]:
Well, you know what, but you’re doing it for you. So who cares?

Jackie Meyer [00:33:48]:
I’m obsessed with it. I don’t know.

John Garrett [00:33:51]:
I promise you there are other people that are equally obsessed.

Jackie Meyer [00:33:54]:
Yeah, like there’s probably 3 of us, at least 3 of us in this world. If you are obsessed, please find me on LinkedIn. I would love to connect with you, right?

John Garrett [00:34:03]:
I mean, when it comes to your and, like, I mean, I had somebody just recently I was talking to and they— it took forever for them to finally go, well, I just really love the Real Housewives on Bravo. I just love watching that. And then all of a sudden within that room, 3 other people were like, me too, and we’re crazy about it. And they were like crazy about it. And I was like, imagine if you had never shared that, like you were embarrassed to share it, you didn’t want to share it, like, and then all of a sudden 3 or 4 professionals now are just jonesing out on whatever Bravo show in the corner.

Jackie Meyer [00:34:35]:
Yeah, that reminds me, because John came and spoke to our team at Tax1IQ, which was really amazing, a few weeks ago for our annual meeting. And I put— I love that word cloud that you put together of our ends, and I put all our movies Hallmark movies I’m obsessed with. I even wrote about them. Like, it’s literally in this dumb— this accounting book, How to Run a Firm. I wrote about a Hallmark movie. So very weird.

John Garrett [00:35:01]:
Yeah. Well, yeah, but I mean, those are things that matter to you and you included it in your project. So absolutely.

Jackie Meyer [00:35:05]:
Yes. Okay. Next question for you. What does your daily life look like? Like, what are you doing day to day?

John Garrett [00:35:11]:
Well, it’s a lot of just talking with conferences and organizations of how I can come in and help. It’s a lot of journaling and thinking and how to push the envelope further out and how to really challenge the status quo, how to be counter-narrative, not on purpose, but because that’s just how I’m built. Because if there’s 1,000 people running one direction, there’s a lot of stupid people that are in that group too. So if you’re running with them, maybe you should just pause and be like, hey, wait a minute, everybody, hold on, you know, type of thing. So it’s really just thinking through like, okay, how is this going? And because I’m able to be removed from the day-to-day of it all, to look at it as one of them, but also look at them as well, and to just kind of say, okay, I get what you’re trying to do, but from a bird’s eye view, this is crazy, everybody. Like, you know, how does this play? Like, right now it sounds awesome, but 3 years from now, 5 years from now, Like, this is not good. Like when COVID happened, everyone’s, you know, oh, well, we shut down our offices. We’re— and everyone’s cheering and cheering.

John Garrett [00:36:21]:
And I’m like, well, hold on, hold on. We’re human beings and we want to be around human beings. Like, we don’t want to be holed up in our house that was not built for me to be in 8 to 10 hours a day in a spare bedroom and alone and not engaging with my people, like, as humans and not getting out and being tribal. And so I was like, well, I, I don’t know about that. You know, like, we can be flexible on it, absolutely, but we still want to be around people. I mean, you, you’re Tax Man IQ. I mean, you got a bunch of people that are remote, but you guys got together on purpose, like, in person right there, and everyone loved it.

Jackie Meyer [00:36:58]:
And they were like, we need to do this quarterly. And then Dave’s like, well, who has an extra $20K, right?

John Garrett [00:37:06]:
Exactly. And they’re like, well, Jackie, you found it.

Jackie Meyer [00:37:09]:
So, uh, I mean, he told our sales manager, like, hey, come up with a couple new sales, extra new sales every quarter, and we got it.

John Garrett [00:37:18]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. The Balanced $20,000-er, uh, like, that’s the next book. Um, like, there you go. Yeah, but I mean, you know, so, so that’s really— it’s a lot of thinking and then a lot of reaching out and, and then sharing that with the world. And I’m realizing, you know, people want in my head. They want to know, okay, what What is he thinking? What is he? And I’m like, oh, okay, didn’t realize that. So here you go. So posting a lot more on LinkedIn, you know, thinking through all those things.

John Garrett [00:37:44]:
So yeah, just how to, how to just move the needle in a better way and just be a little bit of the canary in the coal mine of like, hey everybody, we’re still humans first. Don’t forget that. Like as much AI, as much tech, absolutely all of it. But as humans, let’s remember that.

Jackie Meyer [00:38:00]:
This entire interaction, I’m actually not real. I’m an AI right now. I’m just saying, I should have disclaimed that earlier. I’m sorry.

John Garrett [00:38:09]:
No, no, it’s all good. At least you did it at the very end. Like, it’s all good.

Jackie Meyer [00:38:13]:
Okay, back to you. All right, let’s keep this rapid fire because we’re gonna be here all day. So I’ve got 3 more questions so far.

John Garrett [00:38:22]:
Really fast.

Jackie Meyer [00:38:23]:
Favorite conference? Since you work a lot with accountants, which one’s your favorite?

John Garrett [00:38:28]:
I mean, they’re all fun in their own way. I’m trying to think, like the ones that are really fun are like the leading partner retreats where it’s like a bunch of managing partners. Cause, uh, they don’t have rules or budgets or anything. It’s pretty cool. Cause they let their guard down and they just like, they’re real. And, uh, we can just have some fun. And, and also too, I’m able to like drop some bombs that are going to ripple through a lot of different organizations as opposed to just going deep on one. So those kinds are, are fun because, yeah, that’s where the real stories come out, uh, where it’s like, oh, all right, you know, where they’re just being a little more, more honest.

Jackie Meyer [00:39:08]:
How often do you have ice cream?

John Garrett [00:39:10]:
Oh man, like at least 2 or 3 times a week, at least.

Jackie Meyer [00:39:15]:
Oh, I thought you were gonna say a day. I was like, oh my goodness.

John Garrett [00:39:17]:
Oh no, no, no, let’s not get crazy.

Jackie Meyer [00:39:20]:
And is it like full-fat ice cream, or like what’s your favorite?

John Garrett [00:39:23]:
No, so I’ve moved to— they have some really good, like, oat milk, uh, non-dairy ones as well. Now when I’m traveling, yeah, then it’s full-on, like, real homemade, like, the, the local homemade ice cream place, you know. It’s funny because my wife used to work at one, so I’m normally like, just a scoop, we’re good. Which one?

Jackie Meyer [00:39:45]:
I used to work at one too.

John Garrett [00:39:46]:
Well, at a place called the Cone Zone in Asbury Park, uh, New Jersey, uh, way a long time ago. So when we go in And so if she’s with me, she’s like, no, no, you can’t just get it. So she’s like getting all these toppings on, like, all like loading it up. And it’s like a $12 ice cream. I’m like, whoa, hold on. Like, this is crazy. Or if I speak at a conference and then, you know, it goes really well, that’s kind of like a little reward kind of a thing. It’s like, you know, just that sort of a thing or just a reset or just, you know, hey, and it doesn’t have to be the full.

John Garrett [00:40:18]:
Now, when I was younger, I would eat, you know, the little like the pint I guess, like the little cups. I would just throw the lid away because I’m like, why do we need the lid? Like, you’re just gonna eat the whole thing. Like, why would you keep the lid? This is weird. And so, so now I’ve evolved to where it’s like, well, you know, do maybe a quarter of that and then that’s enough.

Jackie Meyer [00:40:35]:
Yeah, you’ve matured. You’ve matured in your love of ice cream. I appreciate that.

John Garrett [00:40:40]:
Don’t fool yourself.

Jackie Meyer [00:40:43]:
Yeah, so my first job ever was working at Marble Slab. I don’t know if you’ll have it up there.

John Garrett [00:40:47]:
Oh yeah, like a Cold Stone. Stone, sort of, right? Yeah. Where it’s— Yeah. Okay.

Jackie Meyer [00:40:51]:
And you’re scooping that ice cream, man. You’re getting those muscles and then you’re burning your hands constantly on the waffle maker. And then they’re blasting Cher the whole day. It’s all about Cher and do you believe in life after love? It’s awful. Awful. I had nightmares from it.

John Garrett [00:41:07]:
Okay.

Jackie Meyer [00:41:08]:
Next question. This is my most important one. Maybe. Do you have another book in you or is this book, as we’ve discussed, it can, it can be a lifetime plus of just telling people about it and like getting the word out.

John Garrett [00:41:23]:
I’m sure that there is another book in me. It’s just like there’s a lot of books and I don’t want to be just like another book, you know what I mean? So like when What’s Your End was like, I didn’t want to write a book ever. People after, after speaking would come up, hey, my manager’s not here. She really needs to hear this. Do you have a book? Because I’m going to try and tell her about it and I’m going to mess it up, you know? And so then after enough people ask, I was like, okay, fine, I’ll write a book. And then I very much appreciate it and all the kind words. And it’s wild how when people that are 2 or 3 degrees removed where I’m like, I don’t even know how you heard about this, this is crazy. Or even stay-at-home parents, how much What’s Your And has impacted them.

John Garrett [00:42:02]:
Their kid goes away to college and they’re like, oh, I don’t even know who I am anymore. Those sort of things where it is cool for that. But I just want to make sure that if I write another book and it’s a book that needs to be written, not just I’m going to write another book because like I said, there’s a lot of books and there’s a lot of really crappy books. And then I don’t need to be in that pile. And you also really have to believe in the book and in the message and why you’re writing the book, because going through that journey, if you’ve ever read The War of Art by Steven Pressfield.

Jackie Meyer [00:42:33]:
Yes, I actually have that one queued up right now again.

John Garrett [00:42:36]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s like at least once or twice a year I read that. And, you know, it’s true. Like when you’re doing something creative, everything gets in the way to try and prevent you from creating. So you really got to want to do it. So we’ll see. A lot of people ask and I’m like, well, do you want to help? Because, you know, like, it’s, it’s a lift. But yeah, we’ll see.

John Garrett [00:42:55]:
But it had— it needs to be a book that needs to be written. So as of right now, no, but I’m not gonna say it won’t happen.

Jackie Meyer [00:43:02]:
Totally makes sense. I mean, for you to find that really succinct way of communicating this is really, really difficult. I don’t think people realize that. I mean, it’s like Yeah, I think there’s just still so many more people you can impact. So that’s amazing. I love it. Okay, I’m done with questions. I have another call in 4 minutes, so—

John Garrett [00:43:20]:
okay, no, that, that works. That works. Thank you so much, Jackie, for being a part of What’s Your “And”? This was awesome.

Jackie Meyer [00:43:26]:
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Thank you.

John Garrett [00:43:29]:
Yeah, and everybody listening, if you like to see some pictures of Jackie traveling or connect with her on social media or get a link to her book, be sure to go to www.whatsyourand.com. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read What’s Your “And”? as well. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.