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John Garrett [00:00:00]:
Hey, this is John Garrett. I’m passionate about making work more human, especially in this age of AI. I don’t just host this podcast. I also help organizations put people first. Through my keynote speaking, coaching and what’s Your. And implementation programs. To learn more or to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, I invite you to join the movement at www.whatsyourand.com now let’s jump into this week’s conversation.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:00:27]:
This is Beth Goff-McMillan. And when I’m not wandering and exploring the world world, I’m listening to John Garrett on What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:34]:
Welcome to episode 719 of What’s Your “And”?. This is John Garrett. And each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are@whatsyourand.com the book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture.

John Garrett [00:01:18]:
And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon and more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice, reading the book, look for what’s your hand on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast. You don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every weekend. This week is no different with my guest, Beth Goff-McMillan. She’s the CEO of SKG and now she’s with me here today. Beth, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:01:51]:
John, it is a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

John Garrett [00:01:54]:
Absolutely. This is going to be a blast. I also love to travel and explore, so this is going to be super fun. But I have some rapid fire questions. Get to know Beth right out of the gate here. So. All right, here we go. Do you have a favorite color?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:02:08]:
Orange.

John Garrett [00:02:09]:
Orange. Okay. All right. Creative. Okay. There you go. It’s bold. It is Bold.

John Garrett [00:02:14]:
It is bold. How about a least favorite color?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:02:16]:
Brown.

John Garrett [00:02:17]:
Brown. Interesting.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:02:18]:
Which is crazy because I have, like, big brown eyes. But no, I. Brown is just. And everybody knows in the conference rooms they remove all of the markers that have brown.

John Garrett [00:02:29]:
Oh, that’s hilarious. That’s great. Even that’s funny. I’m glad you don’t have bright orange eyes, because that would be really creepy.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:02:37]:
That would be difficult. Yes.

John Garrett [00:02:39]:
How about an early bird or night owl?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:02:41]:
Early bird.

John Garrett [00:02:41]:
Early bird. Okay, there you go. How about. Do you have a favorite actor or an actress?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:02:46]:
Diane Keaton. And it was so sad. I love watching her in all of her roles, and that was really sad. And I love her sense of style and fashion, and she was her own person always. And I love that she drinks wine with ice, which I know is you’re not supposed to, but I just thought, you know, she just does her own thing, and I was very sad to see her pass.

John Garrett [00:03:08]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. But that’s a good. Great answer. Solid answer. How about toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:14]:
There’s only one way over.

John Garrett [00:03:17]:
Are you to change it at somebody’s house if they have it the wrong way?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:21]:
Depends on whose house it is.

John Garrett [00:03:23]:
Okay, okay. All right, Fair. That’s funny. I think somebody listening right now is like, wait a minute. I think I figured it out for sure.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:31]:
They’re like, oh, gosh, you’d probably do it at my house.

John Garrett [00:03:35]:
There you go. How about. Are you more shower or bath?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:38]:
Oh, I love a nice hot bath.

John Garrett [00:03:41]:
Yeah, nice. How about puzzles? Sudoku, Crossword, jigsaw puzzle?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:45]:
Jigsaw.

John Garrett [00:03:46]:
Oh, okay. There you go.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:47]:
Tried and true. Jigsaw.

John Garrett [00:03:49]:
Nice. All right, how about Star wars or Star Trek?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:03:53]:
Oh, you know, I listened to your podcast. I knew this one was coming, and I’m not either. But, you know, I guess when I was little, I wanted to be Princess Leia, so there you go.

John Garrett [00:04:02]:
Star Wars. All right. Is there another trilogy?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:04:05]:
Oh, gosh, nothing. Sci fi.

John Garrett [00:04:07]:
No, no, it doesn’t have to be sci fi at all.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:04:09]:
The one show that I really liked that was like, multi season was Scandal.

John Garrett [00:04:14]:
Oh, yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:04:15]:
I love any smart, fast pace and anything to do with, like, global politics or. Oh, and the Secretary of State shows. Love those. Love those shows.

John Garrett [00:04:26]:
Yeah, yeah, totally. Cool. How about ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:04:32]:
Well, I’m dairy intolerant, so I wish. But I do like a cake cone.

John Garrett [00:04:37]:
Oh, yeah. All right. Like the old school. Because then you can almost, like, set it down in case you needed an extra hand for a second 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And there’s a lot of non dairy, like, getting out there more now.

John Garrett [00:04:50]:
And like, now there are.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:04:51]:
But when I was a kid, I loved them. And then we always wondered why I was so sick. Every time we would get home from the ice cream store, I was so sick.

John Garrett [00:04:58]:
Oh, gosh.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:04:58]:
And I couldn’t have it. But when I could eat it, it was always in a. Just a good ash and cake town.

John Garrett [00:05:04]:
There you go. I like it. How about when you were a kid? Favorite cartoon?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:05:08]:
Just Bugs Bunny. And what was. Oh, God, he was so hilarious. That long. What was it? Longhorn.

John Garrett [00:05:15]:
Oh, Foghorn. Longhorn, yeah, yeah, that one.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:05:19]:
Yeah. Oh, my God, he was hilarious. Oh, he was such a dork. And just his big old lovable dork running around the barnyard.

John Garrett [00:05:28]:
That’s great. Love it. How about your computer? Are you PC or a Mac?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:05:32]:
PC at work, Mac at home.

John Garrett [00:05:34]:
Oh, look at you. Ambidextrous. All right, that’s impressive. All right, how about season summer, Winter, spring or fall?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:05:41]:
Fall football season.

John Garrett [00:05:43]:
Solid. Me too. Yeah, totally.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:05:46]:
There’s nothing better than the fall and the start of football.

John Garrett [00:05:49]:
Amen. How about a favorite number?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:05:51]:
Seven all the way. Like, I love odd numbers. Nine’s too many, threes too small. So seven is just a really good odd number.

John Garrett [00:06:01]:
Okay, I like it. How about a favorite day of the week?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:04]:
Thursday.

John Garrett [00:06:05]:
Interesting. Okay, Thursday.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:06]:
Because I know the weekend’s coming, and that’s also my housekeeper.

John Garrett [00:06:11]:
There you go. Nice.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:13]:
Nobody’s allowed to cook in the house on Thursday night.

John Garrett [00:06:17]:
Right. Because we got to, like, let this sit nice and clean.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:20]:
24 hours of a clean house.

John Garrett [00:06:22]:
I love it. No, that’s a solid answer. How about are you more sweet or savory?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:27]:
Ooh, savory.

John Garrett [00:06:28]:
Oh, okay. All right. And then I got two more. How about favorite toppings on a pizza? You can load it up.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:35]:
Mushrooms and red onions.

John Garrett [00:06:37]:
Oh, okay. All right. There you go. And the last one. The favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:06:44]:
Oh, gosh. So I really try not to get too attached to possessions, but my favorite thing that I own is an Ashley Longshore painting. Ashley Longshore is this incredible folk artist. She’s self taught, and she’s a woman from the south that doesn’t take herself too seriously and kind of mocks Southern women.

John Garrett [00:07:11]:
Okay.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:07:12]:
And it’s all about women going out and conquering and doing their own thing and buying your own stuff. That was my first piece of, like, big girl commissioned art. So I had a piece commissioned, and it’s Called Gucci Jesus. And it’s this brush. I know my mom. I was raised Catholic, and my mom literally was like, Beth, that’s sacrilegious. But it’s a cr. It’s literally this beautiful Jesus that he’s wrapped in a Gucci coat and is holding a piece of chocolate cake and has a big bottle of V, which is actually the correct way to pronounce it.

John Garrett [00:07:46]:
Right.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:07:46]:
And she’s like, you know, go do it. Like, be you. Be kind. Be loving. But if you want to buy a. Buy it. If you want to eat it, eat it. If you want to drink it, drink it, you know, so it’s so fun.

John Garrett [00:07:57]:
Exactly. It’s not a sin in moderation and, you know, with the intent and the heart behind it.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:08:02]:
Totally. That’s right.

John Garrett [00:08:03]:
It’s not as black and white as a lot of people want to make things so cool. So let’s talk traveling, wandering, exploring. Like, all this. Like, how did that get started? Did you grow up like this, or was it later?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:08:16]:
You know, I did, and I didn’t even know at the time what it was manifesting in me. But as a little kid, you know, I’m. I’m not young, so. You know, when we were traveling, you traveled the United States, and you traveled the United States States via a station wagon.

John Garrett [00:08:32]:
Yes, yes.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:08:33]:
So our whole lives, literally, I swear, we could have been the original vacation family, like, driving across the United States. And so we’ve always gone into small towns to have lunch or dinner. And it always amazed me to see how large and small towns, how people interacted and how they managed traffic, how, like, where the post office was. I just was really enamored every time we would travel, just even in remote places, how the basic elements of life still took place. And so I think as a little kid, you were. I was just exposed to it, and then I started seeking it out, and I’m the why person. I love to ask questions, and I love to pick. And what I realized, whether we were in an antique store or at a diner or at a, you know, Michelin restaurant, watching the people and watching people engage and seeing, you know, I’m always in my head playing this story, you know, is he gonna propose? Are they gonna fight? What are they celebrating? I just love watching human connection through life.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:09:45]:
And I always feel like I’m opening a door to somebody else’s world when I go into. Doesn’t matter what part of the country or world. So I just love the act of wandering and exploring and seeing how people connect.

John Garrett [00:10:00]:
Yeah. And there’s layers to this. So it’s not just the traveling and the wandering. It’s. You’re writing a story and a narrative that might be more exciting than what’s actually. I mean, they’re just two people having dinner and you’re like, is he gonna propose like all this big? And it’s like, nope, I just had a coupon that was getting ready to expire. And that’s why we’re here.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:10:20]:
We’re just going to dinner. But here I am, you know, it’s all of it and traveling with my mom and with my husband. My mom loves to share everything with everybody. You know, she loves it no matter where we’re. Well, we’re from Louisville or I now live in Florida. She tells her, like, they don’t care. My husband does the same thing. Like, we could be at a bar and we’re literally just going to go have drinks.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:10:45]:
By the time we walk out, we have dinner plans with somebody we didn’t even know. And so it’s funny that I’ve attached myself to people that like, take it one layer above where I even thought about taking it. But it also does make it fun for me because I get to know people along the way.

John Garrett [00:11:00]:
Yeah, that’s awesome. And so do you have any favorite places that you’ve been that come to mind or favorite stories or anecdotes?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:11:07]:
I took a trip to Africa and I did two back to back trips by myself. I spent a week in Barcelona. I was meeting a group there. It was quasi work. Then I took a two week trip to South Africa.

John Garrett [00:11:21]:
Oh, yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:11:22]:
And the first week was I was on safari and I met a friend there, but I had to get over there by myself. And we knew no one. We knew no one. I met one friend there and we did a safari for a week. And it was the most amazing week of my life.

John Garrett [00:11:43]:
Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:11:44]:
The people I met, the colors I saw, the food I ate, literally blew my mind. We landed in the San Sabe desert or the San Sabi Reserve. Like you were coming in on like a little dirt Runway, pitch black, it’s raining. And in my head I’m like, what have I done? What have I done? I know no one. And I’m a single mom at the time. And I’m like, oh my God, I’m gonna orphan my kids. And I got into a Range Rover with somebody I didn’t know.

John Garrett [00:12:17]:
Yeah, totally barely.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:12:18]:
He barely spoke English. To take me two and a half hours down these dirt roads to get to our safari location. I’m like, oh, I’m. I’m dead. This is not gonna work out. Well, we get there, it’s pouring rain, and they said, you know, would you like to get in and get settled or we’re gonna go out on a night safari. But we know it’s raining, and I’m like, I can stay in a dry room the rest of my life. Let me grab my coat.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:12:46]:
I’m going out on safari in the pitch black rain. And so it’s been a week kind of by myself, exploring all these different parts of Africa and meeting people. And we went to the little school and I got to see all these beautiful children and how they learn and watching the dynamics of their family and just saw every piece of how they earn money, how do they make a living? How do. What does dinner time look like for them? And most everybody there supported the camps that were around there and all the luxury safaris. But at the end of the day, everybody is more alike than they are dissimilar.

John Garrett [00:13:29]:
Oh, 100%.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:13:30]:
And they had kids and they loved their kids and they wanted well for their kids and they wanted to educate their kids and they didn’t want their kids to need to worry about shelter and safety and all the basic things we want for our children. They wanted the exact same. It just, you know, stripping away a lot of the barriers that we, especially in the US put on ourselves. When you strip all that away, it’s just everybody really does want the same things.

John Garrett [00:13:59]:
It’s interesting how you pointed out that we put that on ourselves. No one told us this. No one made us do this. It’s just through education and through society and through corporate and all this, it’s just sort of the structure, the matrix, if you will, that we’re in. And then we just play along, even though no one made us us or no one explicitly told us. And then we just do it.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:14:23]:
You do you just want more and more and more and more and more and more. And these people were just lovely and wonderful and happy. Expected little and had greatness and they expected little. That was a very pivotal point in my life.

John Garrett [00:14:40]:
That’s so cool. Yeah, I did safari in Kenya and yeah, similar fly in, but we landed right near the camp, so there wasn’t a. But I know those drives are not smooth. That two and a half hour ride that you. I was like, oh, man. Like, that’s not just cruising down the highway. That’s a. I mean, it’s probably not.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:14:59]:
Oh, it is. Oh, it is. You can’t see where you’re going. I mean, they knew where they were going. I didn’t.

John Garrett [00:15:04]:
It’s crazy. So good for you. That’s super cool. Yeah. And just, you know, that wandering mindset has to play into work somehow. Do you feel like any of this translates over to the CEO, Beth?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:15:18]:
Boy, you know, I do, and in such a huge way. I think in a couple aspects. I think one, the more you travel and you expose yourself to other cultures and the more that you ask questions and you open yourself up to that vulnerability, you’re more relatable. And I know that in conversations, I don’t care if it’s with employees, with clients, influencers, whomever it might be. I know that I have more shared experiences with the people I’m talking to because I’ve seen so many different slices of life. I’ve chosen not to stay in my bubble and to explore things that I wouldn’t normally get to see and experience. I think the other thing is the art of listening and asking questions and not surface level questions, leaving space for silence and letting conversations evolve. And I think sometimes not, you know, just letting a conversation naturally evolve.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:16:30]:
Because if you’re asking deeper questions, it’s very different than, you know, you’re opening a rapid fire where everybody has a quick answer and they’re fun and cute. But when you start asking tougher questions and questions about your family and your upbringing and tell me about your education and what was school like, and you start digging, you know, a lot of those, there’s. There’s a pause, there’s a moment where they’re collecting their thoughts and then you just have this beautiful connection and conversation. I think being able to. It has taught me to meet people

John Garrett [00:17:03]:
where they are and it sounds like to genuinely care. I think the reason why there’s the pause is because, wow, no one’s ever. No one’s ever cared enough to ask me that. And especially in a work setting, you know, good God, are you crazy? And it’s like, I might be, but I’m good crazy. So we’re going on this ride. Here we go.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:17:23]:
And. Well, yeah, I mean, they have to have a little bit of crazy to be here working with us. But no, it’s true. And in a lot of conversations within the company, you know, I get met with a lot of tears of, you know, women that are overwhelmed or women that are juggling a lot or. Or they just got off of a difficult call and just being able to sit and ask questions and listen. And a lot of times people don’t want you to Solve their problem. And the more you travel, people don’t want us, especially Americans, we don’t need you to solve our problems. But we’d love for you to listen, we’d love for you to understand.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:18:00]:
And sometimes just hearing somebody, that’s really all they needed to kind of regroup, reset. Okay, now let’s get back in there. So, no, it translates in many ways into what I do because it’s such

John Garrett [00:18:15]:
a cool thing that, you know, your end is at the core of who you are. And so, you know, it definitely comes out, whether it’s an actual skill, like, wow, our flight got canceled. I gotta find a new flight. Like, all the travel logistics or whatever, or the creating human connection or whatever, or just like you said, there’s a relatability. I have a story, you have a story. Like, you know, maybe I also like to travel. Okay, well, we can be friends on different level, you know, and so it always does because it’s. It’s you, you know, and.

John Garrett [00:18:44]:
And for me to say you could never wander, explore, or travel anymore, like, that would be brutal. You know, I mean, the look on your face right now is like, I’m going to beat this guy up. Like, where’s he live? I’m finding him. Like, it’s. So that’s it, though. Our minds play all these tricks on us to where we put this on the back burner. We don’t really share it. We don’t think it matters as much.

John Garrett [00:19:07]:
And then someone like me comes along and stops the merry go round. And everyone’s like, whoa, I didn’t know the ride could stop for a second. Like, that’s cool. Is there anything that you do at SKG to encourage people to have an and. Or share their and. Or get to that side of them?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:19:24]:
Yes. But doing this has also, in that question also will make me think deeper on that. A couple things that we do. One, you know, I’ve always said, from the time that I’ve been here and this May, I’ll have been here as the CEO 11 years.

John Garrett [00:19:41]:
Oh, goodness. Yeah, that’s a good mountain. Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:19:44]:
And it has been a ride. We’re headquartered in Austin, Texas. So just the amount of growth that we’ve seen has been very staggering. So there’s been a lot of people that have come through these doors. And the essential part of what we do is really understand the why behind somebody’s business. And in that it’s very fast paced, it’s very competitive. So I know people need flexibility and people have to be incredible humans outside of work, to be able to deliver what we need them to inside of work. So we really want people to be flexible and people to engage with, family, friends, whatever that might be.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:20:27]:
But one thing that we do at the beginning of every year is we make everybody fill out a form called tell us about yourself. And it’s all about, what are your goals for the year? And it’s not just work, like, what do you want to, what do you want this year to look like? You know, do you want to run a marathon this year? Do you want to take a new class? Do you want to learn a new skill? You know, what are the three things that you want to tackle? And then when we do our one on ones with, you know, every manager will then do one on ones with their team and we talk about that, like, where are you against your goals? Personally, professionally, family? Like, are you wanting to start a family or, you know, wanting to buy that car? So we want people to want things outside of work. We don’t want people to be burnt out. And we know that you can get very burnt out in what we do. And then there’s something else that we do and it has kind of evolved. We have this volunteer group called Culture Club. And you know, I was a teenager in the 80s, so why not have it Culture Club? But it’s a voluntary group that we give them, you know, 1% of our revenues we send to Culture Club. And we’re like, okay, we have to have four pillars because there has to be some structure to this.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:21:44]:
But it has to kind of match our company, Culture Compass. And it has to have an element of social, it has to have an element of impact, it has to have an element of development. And so in that we all, it all started out with, oh, let’s do a happy hour, let’s bring somebody in to talk about insurance or banking or whatever. But now it’s evolved to, let’s go to the park, let’s go for a walk. Does anybody want to go kayaking? Or I love a bunch of girls are like, you know what, let’s take an adult dance class. So what started out as a way for people to cross, collaborate and have moments to see each other outside of just your role has turned into us getting to see passions and what other people like. And we’re a big karaoke group. And so all of a sudden somebody will be like, oh, you know, I love karaoke.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:22:40]:
And by the way, I sing in the choir at church. You’re like, I didn’t know that. So we do in ways that we can. And I think just kind of our quirky culture has brought some of that out.

John Garrett [00:22:50]:
Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, I love both of those. They’re such simple examples, almost free, you know. And I mean, the tell us about yourself form is awesome. I mean, I love, like, the clients I work with is, you know, what do you love to do at work? And how can we help you do more of that? And then what do you do love to do outside of work? And how can I help you do more of that? And that’s basically what you’re doing there is, you know, what do you want this year to look like? Not just the work side, but because the outside of work you is 80% of you. I mean, that work you is such a small percentage, if we really think about it, we just allow that. That monster to take over all of it. I love how you’re showing, like, hey, nurture the other side of you and.

John Garrett [00:23:33]:
Or sides, plural of you. And we’re going to make sure that you do, because I care that that you do. And that’s awesome. And then you have people accidentally kayaking together or accidentally karaoke together or, like, and it’s like, wow, what a cool thing to just have that accidentally manifest itself through, you know, small initiatives. So that’s super cool. I love it. I love it. So do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that feels like they have an and, but it has nothing to do with my job, so why should I talk about it or why does it matter?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:24:04]:
Oh, my gosh, so many thoughts are, like, streaming through my head. You know, one of the ways that we got our team to think about it before we did the exercise around, you know, tell us about yourself. We started with this. You know, time is elastic, and everybody says, I don’t have time. But then, you know, you get a flat tire, and all of a sudden you have all the time in the world because you can’t get anywhere or you get sick. And then you’re like, man, the things I thought were important really aren’t. Sometimes they’re putting time in the wrong bucket and they’re allowing other outside forces to drive and occupy their time. And so one of the ways that we go about looking at this is.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:24:53]:
And how a lot of this started, even within the company, as we started tracking hour by hour, what were we really doing? And we looked at that, we tracked it for a couple weeks, and then we looked at how we were spending our time versus our goals. Like, wait a minute. So it’s basically taking. What do we do for our business? Where are we spending our time against the goals? Where are we spending our money against the goals? And it’s almost like. Like, our currency in life is time.

John Garrett [00:25:19]:
Yes.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:25:19]:
That is our currency.

John Garrett [00:25:20]:
Yes.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:25:21]:
So when you literally have to write down what I did every hour, and you’re like, holy cow, look at how much time. If I wasn’t doing that, even if it’s 15, 20 minutes. You take 15 minutes, 20 minutes a day. You gobble that up.

John Garrett [00:25:35]:
Yeah. We got hours a week. Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:25:37]:
Yeah. And so we started looking at it, and instead of it being very overwhelming in, oh, I’m gonna have to take an art class. I’d love to paint, but I’m gonna have to take an art class and get supplies. You know, sometimes it could be very small, and I think just looking at how am I spending time and is that really what I want to spend my time on? And then you can just start making small shifts of. No, I really would love to read a book. Great. Carve 20 minutes out. And then literally, I have to put time on my calendar, and I literally block it off, and I put it in red because I know I need an hour a day to do things for me.

John Garrett [00:26:18]:
Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:26:19]:
So I can keep all the plates spinning in my world. And y’, all, you know, maybe doing a call with the bank or call with a top 10 client is also radically important, but so is making sure that I’m doing things for my kids and I’m doing things for my parents and you. Like, life is life.

John Garrett [00:26:39]:
Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:26:40]:
And there is to be. There is no work, life, balance. It is just life. And you have to get control of how you balance your own currency of time.

John Garrett [00:26:49]:
Yeah. And doing things for just you even, you know, and, you know, it’s really a difficult concept for people to understand, and, you know, they feel like they’re being selfish or it’s like, no, no. I’m not saying disregard and ignore your family. I’m just saying also, time for you, because otherwise, you’re not any good for them. You’re not any good for work. You’re not any good for anything. And so I love that. That’s so great of just, you know, what is it that you want to be doing? And then just carve out a little bit of time for it.

John Garrett [00:27:18]:
And if you’re so overwhelmed and drowning at work and you can’t do it because of that, well, then we got to figure something out, because you should not be drowning in work and not allowing yourself to flourish. And be fully activated as a human. So, you know, like, we care enough to, like, okay, let’s figure this out. So I love that. That’s so, so beautiful. So I feel like this has been awesome, but I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning of the show, and I feel like it’s only fair that we turn the tables, make this the Beth Goff-McMillan podcast. I don’t know, whatever music you want. So thanks for having me on.

John Garrett [00:27:55]:
I’m in the hot seat. I’m all yours.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:27:57]:
Okay, great. Because I do have a few questions for you because I do listen to your podcast. And one, I love the fact and I will honor you with this. Preparing really made me self reflect. I love human connection. And since my human connection to my love started when I was a kid. Tell me your favorite memory as a kid.

John Garrett [00:28:21]:
Wow. All right. Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot. I grew up, my dad was military, so we moved a lot. So there’s definitely, like, windows. Because if you live in the same hometown, I imagine it all just blurs. I would think so.

John Garrett [00:28:34]:
There’s like, windows of things. Like, the first time, like, playing golf with my grandpa, that was super fun. I was probably like, I don’t know, seven or eight. That was really fun. And, you know, or going to the beach. My granny lived in Delaware, so we’d go to the Rehoboth beach. And, you know, it was usually around something like that was always really fun. Or, like, playing chess with my grandpa.

John Garrett [00:28:56]:
Same grandpa, like, you know, just in. You make a move. He’s like, are you sure you want to do that move? And, okay. And it took me a couple times to figure out he’s trying to help me. I was like, yeah, I wanted to do that move. And then all of a sudden, like, all right, well, game’s over. It’s like, okay. I learned whenever he asked that question, go, yeah, I do want to think about it.

John Garrett [00:29:14]:
And then back up and do a different one. Those are fun memories that come to mind.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:29:18]:
That’s wonderful. And it goes right back to human connection.

John Garrett [00:29:22]:
Yeah, very much.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:29:22]:
And they were all about the people that meant the most, so. And here’s another question for you. When you started the podcast, because there are many out there, what was your biggest fear?

John Garrett [00:29:33]:
Oh, wow. So I don’t listen to podcasts. And when this came out, I mean, this is like, almost 10 years ago now, there weren’t very many. I mean, there were, but, like, not what it is now. And so I just went out and listened to, like, the top 10 business podcasts and just was like, wow, I really hate that part of the show. I’m never going to do that. Or oh, I like the way they do that. I’m going to do my version of it or you know, whatever it is.

John Garrett [00:29:58]:
I guess the greatest fear is just probably 99% of it in my own head of just be me. Like, I mean, I’ve found from people being on that are nervous or never been on a podcast before or whatever, or even people that have, they’re like, wow, this is like one of the most fun podcasts I’ve ever been a part of. Like, thank you. Like, and thanks for the work that you’re doing and like all of this. And. And so it was like, oh, okay, I could just be me. Like I don’t have to perform. Which is kind of meta because that’s what the show’s all about is the guest being just the guest.

John Garrett [00:30:29]:
Like, you know, who are you? And it’s like, well, I can’t be not me at the same time that I’m asking you to be fully you. Like, that just doesn’t wasn’t math. That was probably. It was just, you know, the being seen, being known, you know, that sort of thing. Because I’m a big fan of a very Midwest, you know, just, you know, be a best kept secret.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:30:50]:
I think that’s what makes it work is you’re very easy to talk with. And I can hear that from your guests on your other show.

John Garrett [00:30:59]:
Yeah, and I care. Like, it’s like, wow, what does light you up? Like, get. I’ve accidentally created a show where you’re on fire. I mean, you’re just like, yeah, I’ll talk about travel. Let’s do this. How long? What do you got, five hours? How long is this show going to be exactly?

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:31:14]:
Like, I can’t believe that we’re already at the end. Like, it just went so fast.

John Garrett [00:31:18]:
Totally. So I think probably just being seen, being known, being me. And that goes along with a lot of the lack of social media and lack of all that that now is changing, you know, because I’m learning that people want to hear what I’m thinking. They want to get inside my brain a little bit. They want to. Oh, you, you think differently. You’re sort of counter narrative in a good way. You know, we need that voice out there to sort of remind people that hey, we’re humans at the end of the day, not just job titles.

John Garrett [00:31:46]:
So, you know, keep going.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:31:48]:
No, 100%. I think when people can be seen for Their relationship value and not transactional. That’s the quintessential essence.

John Garrett [00:31:57]:
Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:31:57]:
My last question, and it’s even a bigger one.

John Garrett [00:32:00]:
Yeah.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:32:01]:
What is your wish for mankind?

John Garrett [00:32:04]:
Yeah. You really tiptoed into the deep end on this, didn’t you? Like you.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:32:10]:
I told you, this is what I love. This is.

John Garrett [00:32:12]:
We are in the middle of the Indian Ocean. As deep as it gets right here. My wish for mankind is to just. For everyone to feel alive, like fully activated. Like, don’t feel hidden or like you have to contort yourself or you have to, like, just be you. And that we all just can live life and not out of fear, but just, you know, like, not base all of our decisions off of fear, but base them off of love and freedom and what it means for you to live your best life.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:32:53]:
I love that. I love that so much. I’ve always told my kids, especially in the hard teenage years, you know, I said the best thing and the easiest path in life, and the best thing is when you are authentically you. That’s when life gets easy. But it is the hardest thing to do because it requires such bravery and such courage. Because people are afraid to show up authentically themselves because they’re afraid they’re going to be rejected.

John Garrett [00:33:20]:
Well, we were all in seventh grade at some point, you know, like, we went through that. So, you know, you have to come. It’s really weird how, like, all of your education is try to conform and then you become an adult and it’s like, do not conform or what? Or you’re going to be lost and forgotten and just a cog in a wheel and just miserable at the end of the day. And so it’s kind of this weird juxtaposition of that. And it also doesn’t mean show up to work in a bathrobe and slippers. It’s like, no, no, there’s your best self. So it doesn’t mean you have to be all the time. All the parts of you, you know, I refer to people as like, it’s like a dice.

John Garrett [00:34:02]:
Like when you roll a dice, like the number 2 is up, the other 5 numbers are still there. It just means that right now this is the one that’s up. But it doesn’t mean that the other parts went away. It just means that you don’t have to be all the numbers all the time, you know, sort of a thing. Because some people think, like, oh, well, I can just come in and do whatever I want. And it’s like, well, not. Not really.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:34:22]:
There are still norms There are norms,

John Garrett [00:34:24]:
but like you said, don’t allow one side to engulf and bully all the other sides to disappear. And so, you know, yeah, sure, at work, there’s this you, but it doesn’t mean that all the other sides are gone in forever. It’s like, no, no. Like, you know, it’s just, you know, when I did stand up, you know, like, I mean, you could see, like, Conan o’, Brien. Like, you just dial up up the nerdy just a little bit. Like, Conan’s not like that when you’re hanging out, but you just find the little part of you and you dial that up and then. And so it’s the same at work, like, a little more professional. Me.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:34:59]:
Okay, now 100. I mean, if I showed up the, you know, silly Beth on the weekends, nobody would take me serious in my day job. But at the same time, even during my day job, I don’t take myself too seriously. Like, I.

John Garrett [00:35:12]:
And silly Beth comes out, sometimes it’s just not in front of the top 10 clients or, I don’t know, some

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:35:19]:
of them have gone to Mardi Gras with me, so they’ve.

John Garrett [00:35:21]:
Or the right ones, you know, like, you know, but. And that’s probably why they’re a top 10 client, because they’ve seen the real Beth, you know, type of thing. So I love it. Well, thank you so much, Beth, for being a part of what’s your hand. This was really, really fun.

Beth Goff-McMillan [00:35:35]:
I’ve enjoyed this very much, John. I appreciate you having me on.

John Garrett [00:35:42]:
Everybody listening. If you want to see some things, pictures of Beth or connect with her on social media, be sure to go to www.whatsyourand.com. everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button. Do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.