Welcome to Episode 229 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. Each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and, you know those things that are above and beyond your technical skills, the things that you really love to do outside of work, and they really differentiate you when you get to the office.

I’m so excited to let everyone know my book is coming out very, very soon. It’ll be available on Amazon and a few other websites. So check out whatsyourand.com for all the details. I can’t say how much it means that everyone is excited for the book and listening to the show and then changing the cultures where they work because of it.

Please don’t forget to hit Subscribe so you don’t miss any of the future episodes because I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. This week is no different with my guest, Seth Margolies. He’s a partner in the Dallas office of Carr, Riggs & Ingram. Now he’s with me here today.

Seth, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Seth: Thanks, John, for having me. Thanks for inviting me. I’m super excited to do this podcast. I listen to several of your podcasts. I just hope to be as great as some of the others, entertaining.

John: Oh, no, man, you’re going to be awesome already from the phone call we had a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, I’m just excited to share your story. But before we get into that, you know the drill, rapid-fire questions right out of the gate.

Seth: I’m ready. Let’s do it.

John: Here we go. Here we go. I’ll start out with a pretty easy one, I think. Favorite color?

Seth: Blue.

John: Nice. Okay, how about a least favorite color?

Seth: Least favorite color, how about brown?

John: Brown. That’s a good answer. That’s a solid answer. Star Wars or Star Trek?

Seth: That’s easy, Star Wars.

John: Oh, there you go. There you go. And your computer, more PC or a Mac?

Seth: Definitely a PC. Walking in the Mac store and I don’t know what to do.

John: No, no, they don’t even let me in. So I’m with you. I’m not cool enough. I’m way not cool enough. So then your mouse, right click or left click?

Seth: Right click.

John: Right click. Okay. That’s where the exciting stuff is. I like it. Okay. Do you have a favorite band or musician?

Seth: You know, I don’t know if I can come up with a favorite band or group. But while I’m working. I love to listen to just kind of classical music.

John: Oh, yeah, there you go.

Seth: It’s a nice distraction. But I won’t lie, every now and then, the hip-hop station comes on and it just depends upon what hour it is. In the morning, it might be classical. If I need something to get me going in the afternoon or later at night, it might be a little hip-hop.

John: There you go. There you go. That works. That works for me. Would you say you’re more balance sheet or income statement?

Seth: Definitely income statement. I think the balance sheet is more for the auditors.

John: Right. That’s true. That is true. Actually, from a tax perspective, they have no clue. Do you have a favorite animal, any animal at all?

Seth: I have two dogs, two foster dog. Sometimes they drive me a little crazy, but I’ll have to go with dogs.

John: Dogs. That’s a good answer, man. That’s a really good answer. How about do you prefer more hot or cold?

Seth: Hot. I’m a big tea drinker, so I’m always drinking tea.

John: There you go. That’s my next question, sweet tea or regular tea?

Seth: Half and half.

John: Half and half. Okay. I see what’s going on there. That’s interesting. All right. Do you have a favorite number?

Seth: Seven.

John: Seven. That’s the most popular answer. Is there a reason?

Seth: I don’t think so. I think just seven just growing up. Again, I feel like everybody’s favorite number is seven.

John: It is, man. It’s It’s by far the most popular answer on here. For me, it’s sports related, but yeah, for sure, for sure. This is an important one, toilet paper, roll over or under?

Seth: You know, John, I never understand why this is a real question. I mean, there’s only one answer. It’s over. I think under is just for like lazy people, like you put it on and it goes on there. You just don’t want to change it.

John: Right, right. You know what’s wrong, but you’re too lazy to change it. That’s awesome. We’ll run out in a week or so, it doesn’t matter. Yeah, right. That’s great. Sudoku or crossword puzzle?

Seth: I’d go with Sudoku. Man, this crossword puzzle, so tough.

John: No, I agree. I agree. And when you fly, more window or aisle seat?

Seth: Definitely an aisle. Claustrophobic.

John: Definitely aisle?

Seth: Yeah.

John: Okay, okay. Do you have a favorite actor or actress?

Seth: You know, John, I don’t really have a favorite actor or actress, but I am obsessed with movies. I love to go to movies. I don’t really dislike or love one more than the other. I just love going to the movies.

John: No, that works, man. Movie actors and actresses, that works. Would you say you’re more of an early bird or a night owl?

Seth: I am definitely an early bird.

John: Okay. Okay. And the last one, the favorite thing you own or the favorite thing you have?

Seth: The favorite thing I have is I have to go with a great family, two kids, a wife.

John: That’s a great answer. Plus, she might listen. So good job you, man. Good job you. That was great, man. Really awesome. So let’s transition into the swimming and the exercising and all that. How you get into this? Since you were little or more of a late bloomer on that?

Seth: No, I was probably no more the swimmer than anybody else. Back in the day, I probably –again I’m not a big sports fan. I was never really into sports. I played soccer, just probably no different than most people. But I’ve always worked out and weights, had a trainer. I was always just very active. Again, I was early bird so I was always doing something in the morning. I was always doing boot camps. I’d run to the gym in the morning at like 5:30 and do boot camp outside and loved it. My wife did it too. It was great. And it was about eight years ago that I got shingles.

John: Oh, my goodness.

Seth: You know anybody that’s getting shingles at the age of like 34, 35?

John: No. Yeah, typically, it’s like grandparents’ friends or people like that.

Seth: Yeah, I guess I’m the oldest 35-year-old.

John: Right. You also like to play bingo and watch Wheel of Fortune.

Seth: That’s right. So that was like eight years ago, I got the shingles. It was during tax season too. So it’s absolutely terrible. It’s basically like a kind of a nervous system disease, illness, whatever. It probably didn’t show up till months later, but I got muscle atrophy in my left shoulder. They couldn’t figure out what it was. It turns out it related back to shingles. But long story short, my muscle and my left shoulder just literally disappeared. So I couldn’t really do anything with my left shoulder. I had to drop out of boot camp. I really couldn’t exercise. Yeah, I was doing physical therapy. When I would hold a glass of water with my left hand, it would shake like I couldn’t. I would have to use my right hand.

John: That’s super scary too.

Seth: Oh, it’s absolutely terrible. You can’t really do anything. When you’re used to being so active and then you can’t hold a glass of water, it’s terrible. So I did the physical therapy. It didn’t really work. I just kind of threw in the towel. I’d say my body just kind of went mush a little bit. I’ve always been like kind of the same weigh. I was pretty light. Never been heavy. When I tell people my weight, they’re like, “I was that weight in seventh grade.”

John: Right.

Seth: So years later, well, I’d go to the gym every now and then but nothing really because I was just getting neck pain and shoulder pain. It was just terrible.

John: Oh, man!

Seth: So years later, I was like, let me try swimming. So I called up and got a swim coach. I know how to swim, but when I would try and swim on my own, my neck would kill. So I was like, let me get a swim coach. Funny story actually. So they have a big pool there and then they have a small kid pool. He gets into the kid pool and I’m like, “What are we doing?” He’s like, “Well, before we go into the big pool, I need to make sure that you’re safe in the small pool.” I think back in that story and I’m like, oh, my God. So I literally had to get into the small pool, and I had to go on my back and he had to make sure I wasn’t going to drown. “Listen, we’re good. I’ll sign some papers.”

So I had that swim coach for like a year and it was great. It was kind of like, I have to say, like water aerobics, but it was swimming laps and just kind of doing that stuff that you did as a kid, just teaching the breathing techniques and the pedals and the fins and this and that. I don’t remember what happened but that coach left or whatever. So I called up and said, “Hey, I need a new coach.” And they said, “Great. Show up at noon.” I got another coach and I showed up, and I saw this guy and I was like, “Oh, my God.” I know who that guy is. He’s basically just like an insane athlete. He trains swimmers all across the country. I’m like, “Hey, I just want to just have a little fun. Just get my shoulder back.” And my shoulder was feeling much better. Well, a perfectionist again teaching all these crazy athletes.

I did that for like a year and then I would go like three times a week. I would see like this master’s class. It’s like 40 and up and they do all this stuff and he does the class. It’s like just insane swimmers. I remember thinking to myself like looking over those lanes like after I would swim, man, would be really neat to do. I just, at some point, maybe it was the year later, I was like, I think I’m ready to throw in the towel on these lessons and go right in to the master’s.

So I did that. I did like two to three days a week. I would try and swim in between. My shoulder was much better and it was great and I loved it. It was awesome. I mean, that’s really how I got into swimming. I love it.

John: Yeah. When I was a kid, I was a part of a swim team for like, third, fourth, fifth, sixth grade. In the summer, I was super, super brown and my hair would turn almost white from the sun and the bleach and you’d wear that awkward Speedo. But it is such a great workout, total body and you’re breathing deeply. It’s a really, really great workout. They say it doesn’t cost as much impact, right?

Seth: Yeah, that’s the reason I did it. So you sound excited about it. I think you’re going to go swimming out tonight.

John: Right. You know what, I think I’m not ready for that coach yet because he’ll just get angry at me.

Seth: He’s going for perfection. I’m like, “Can we just get to like 85? Let’s just do 85%.

John: Yeah, right. Exactly. That’s my motto in pretty much everything. I’m not going to lie.

Seth: I just need that 75.

John: Tut that’s cool. So you were doing like races or…?

Seth: No, I wasn’t doing races, but they have a bunch of drills and say there’s eight lanes, the slower lane will go to the right, and the fast line will be number eight. So I started off in lane one, and then you can move yourself to two, three, four. It was great. It was just a lot of fun. I just love swimming. You know you said like the breathing thing, like my wife teaches meditation. It’s really like when you’re swimming and it really is like meditating, just finding that breath and just being consistent and flowing through the water. It’s really a great form of meditation and exercise or rehabilitation. It’s great, overall great exercise. I love it. I just did all that, and I haven’t swum in a while.

Back in January this year, I was swimming and again doing the master’s class. And there was just one day where I was swimming and we had the pins on. I was going back and forth. I looked over at the coach, and everyone else looks like they’re passing me that I’m just exhausted. I looked over the coach and I said, “Should this be that hard?” And he said, “Well, this is the only thing you’re doing. Yes, of course.” I think at that point, I realized that I needed to do something else, like the swimming was great for my shoulders and back. But I’m a fast swimmer, but I felt kind of like I was a weak link when it came to the other things, the fins and the pat and this and that.

I just realized, what am I going to do now? I went from not being able to hold a glass of water to be able to swim with a bunch of crazy athletes. My shoulder wasn’t like 100% perfect, but it was pretty darn good. And so I just kind of just went on like a little journey to figure out what can I do to gain some weight and build some muscle mass and get stronger and kind of get back to where I was like eight years ago. So boot camp and this crazy stuff and pushing trucks and flipping tires and all that fun stuff at 6:00 a.m.

So my wife, she was on — do you know what ClassPass is?

John: Oh, yeah, yeah, because you can go to different gyms, whatever gym you want.

Seth: They have all these different gyms and take this class. She got me on that and it kind of helped me figure out what I want to do. Do I enjoy this type of class, like all this extra cardio? Maybe that’s not what I need. I need to build some muscle. I don’t want to burn too many calories. So you just kind of find that perfect fit. I ended up getting a trainer who again just kind of got my shoulder a little bit better, and I was able to get a lot stronger. And now I just kind of have my favorite things and just kind of a little bit more in tune to what my body needs. It’s great. I just love it. I just love waking up 5:30, 5:45 and going to do something, or maybe it’s during lunch, I’m going with a coworker to the gym, to ClassPass or going downstairs or whatever it is. So this is great. I just feel back to where I was eight years ago, much stronger, faster, just able to kind of overcome all that. I just keep my fingers crossed

John: Yeah, man. I mean, that’s so scary but so encouraging to hear how you fought through that and got back. Now you feel like you’re really close to where you were eight years ago, which is great. Clearly, something you talk about at work, the exercising and swimming and going to the gym. You said you sometimes go with coworkers. Yeah, it’s not something that you feel like you need to hide or not share.

Seth: Yeah, it’s fun when you go with a coworker. Sometimes you talk a little bit about work but not necessarily, about just sweating or running laps or whatever you’re doing, running up stairs and it’s just a great bonding activity actually.

John: Totally. And especially when it’s out of the office, I think people tend to let their guard down a little bit more.

Seth: Yeah. We talk a little bit about family or wherever it is. I agree.

John: Yeah, just life in general and create like those meaningful relationships as opposed to those superficial ones that exist in a lot of the business world. Just out of curiosity, would you say that any of this gives you a skill or a mentality that you feel like you’re able to bring to the office?

Seth: Yeah, I’ve heard some of the other podcasts you’ve had and be like, wow, those are great people with these awesome skills. What has the skill, what has this ability to overcome this illness been able to do for me? I feel like I can just relate it back to many other things whether it’s again like passing the CPA exam, that thing is hard as you know. I remember way back when like I had such a tough time. I was at E&Y working all those hours. It was tough adventure, eventually kind of hit rock bottom and from start to finish was about five months before passing the exam. But even back here overcoming those obstacles and whether it’s an employee leaves and you need to figure out how we’re going to get that done, hire new employees and post, yeah, and all that, or just driving through a big tax deadline, how am I going to get it done and the planning, just the overcoming and just overcoming obstacles. But also just feel so much better as well.

If I compare this year to last year and this year just feels so much better physically, mentally. I just think that overcoming that challenge has just done physically and mentally just so much better.

John: So you kept this regimen going even through busy season and all that.

Seth: Yeah, even through business season. I think if you take a break, it’s just like so much harder to get back into. A lot of people go for an hour or two, whatever. If you can just get at least 30 minutes in, it makes life so much better.

John: That’s great, man. That’s really cool. Really cool to hear that, yeah, I mean sticking with it and even when there’s a ton of work to be done, still carving out time intentionally. To do this passion of yours made you so much happier than in prior years. So how much do you feel like it’s on an organization to create this culture where people are allowed to share or encouraged to share versus how much is it on the individual to just step up and be like, hey, this is what I’d like to do, maybe in a small circle?

Seth: You know, I’m in charge of a human capital in my office, so I interview almost everyone, for Dallas at least, intern program and every single person asked, tell me about your culture. It’s fascinating. So you talk about culture and how important it is. I think that it is important for the office organization to create that culture to allow individuals like myself or the officemate to be able to share those experiences. Again, like you mentioned, just being able to go to the gym with somebody or whatever, just to be able to share that extra conversation, that’s really what helps build that culture.

John: Oh, totally.

Seth: It’s not going over review notes and balance sheets and profit and loss statements. That’s for sure. It’s all that extra stuff. It’s very important for the organization to allow that work environment. Just like your podcast, people just have to share.

John: That’s the thing is when I was with PwC back in the day and it wasn’t necessarily encouraged or modeled, and we’re also going back 20 years, it’s just all of a sudden, you find out that, man, everyone’s doing something and no one’s really talking about it or sharing it. Because of that, you assume, oh, well, I guess no one else does anything. And then you find out later like, no, no, my studies show that 92% of professionals have a hobby or passion they regularly do outside of work. I mean, I’m going to be the auditor here and round up to 100 and say immaterial difference. So everybody does something. So that’s the thing is just finding that out because every accounting firm reviews work papers like you were saying, but not every accounting firm has somebody with your story or other people’s stories that are there with you at Carr, Riggs & Ingram, and it’s getting those stories out there more is really what’s going to make you different than every other firm that’s out there.

Seth: And being able to connect with those stores. Just a few people that employee exercising or swimming, I could go swimming with somebody, but whatever it is, photography or charity or something, somebody else here probably does it or enjoys it or wants to know more about it. If they do it together, that really just helps the culture.

John: Even like me, I’m not a swimmer, but hearing your story and hearing about it, it’s like, wow, that’s freaking really interesting and fantastic. I mean, it’s great.

Seth: Not that you’re going to pull up that Speedo. You’re going to go in the pool.

John: Right. I’m going to scare everyone. My wife’s going to be like, “What is going on?” And I’ll be like, “I talked with Seth Margolies,” and that’s it. It’s over.

Seth: Just take out the floaties.

John: Yeah, right. Exactly. I’ll have the thing that goes around your waist. I’ll go all in, man. Like it doesn’t matter, like snorkel, like what’s up? Should you be wearing a helmet, John? It feels like it. But no, that’s really cool that that’s what’s, you know, and that you’re living it there as a leader of the firm of the office, as a partner, someone that people look up to, that you’re showing it by example, which is really great. Because I find that sometimes people are so driven by the billable hour and charge codes and all this that sometimes leaders forget that there’s people under them, like real humans.

Seth: Yeah. If you don’t have all the bots, you’ve got humans in your office.

John: Right, exactly, exactly. And even when the bots come, the humans still have to do a lot of the work anyway and still create those connections with clients and with each other.

Seth: And it’s important to encourage those to get outside of the office, even if it’s busy season, working. I don’t really like when people work seven days a week. They need to go home, be with their families, go do that, and… Everybody has and if you don’t have that and, you need to take that day off or two days off and go find it.

John: Go borrow somebody else’s and or something like that.

Seth: Yeah. I’ll lend you my floaties.

John: There you go. That’s all in, man. That’s all in. I love it. So do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that maybe has that passion or interest outside of work but thinks that it has nothing to do with their career?

Seth: Yeah, I mean, again, sometimes you see people that you can tell that they just need to get out more. They’re just working seven days a week or whatever. We just kind of need to encourage them to go out and keep that passion going, whatever it is that they enjoy, because again that’s just going to make them happier. It’s going to keep them hopefully at the firm longer, put the best attention in themselves, they’ll be happier. It’s also good just looking forward. They’re fast forwarding to retirement. What do you do when you retire? Hopefully, you still — and your and might change, but that one and might lead to a different and. We got to start somewhere.

John: Yeah, I love that man. I love that. That’s so great. Such great takeaways. So before we wrap this up, though, it’s only fair that I turned the tables, let you question me now since I fired away at you right out of the gate. So I’m ready.

Seth: All right, let’s do it. Favorite type of taco?

John: Oh, wow, that’s a great question in a very, very Texas question. Mild. We’ll get that out of the gate right now, like the mild salsa or whatever. I guess I’d go steak probably.

Seth: Yeah, one of my other questions that I was thinking about asking you, jalapenos on your nachos or on the side, I already know the answer to that.

John: Yeah, on someone else’s nachos.

Seth: Paper towels, the regular size or the kind of the choose your own size?

John: Yeah, the choose your own size for sure.

Seth: Yeah, save the planet.

John: No, I’m just lazy.

Seth: Wait a second, are you under the toilet paper?

John: No, no, I’m definitely an over. I will change that.

Seth: Don’t hold me against it. That’s your question. Room temperature water or ice water?

John: Room temperature. My teeth, for some reason, when I was little, I was in a big wheel accident. It’s a long story, but I broke out some of my teeth. And for some reason, they’re very, very sensitive in the front. So like I see people bite ice cream or drink really ice cold water and I’m like, oh, man, I’m cringing right now thinking about it.

Seth: Yes.

John: Yeah, room temperature, no ice. Yeah.

Seth: And then the last question is when you listen to a podcast, what speed do you listen to the podcast?

John: Oh, double speed, double speed, webinars, YouTube stuff —

Seth: Times two, really?

John: Times two, man. If the person speaks quickly, then I might one and a half, but typically double. And it’s really funny when I see them in person and I’m like, wow, they are so slow in real life.

John: Yeah, I know. Those are really great questions. That’s really great.

Seth: That’s all I got.

John: No, man, that was awesome. Thank you so much for taking time to be with me here on What’s Your “And”?

Seth: Well, perfect. Thanks for having me.

John: Yeah, this was great. Everyone listening, if you like to see some pictures of Seth outside of work or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. While you’re on the page, please click that big button and do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.

Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.