Welcome to Episode 359 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and,” those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

I’m so excited to let everyone know that my book is published. You can check it out at whatsyourand.com. All the details are there. If you like the podcast, you can hear a lot more and get deeper into the research that I’ve done in the book. It’s available on Amazon, Indigo, Book Depository, Barnes and Noble, all the book websites. All the links are on the page at whatsyourand.com. I can’t say how much it means that people are reading the book and then leaving such nice reviews on Amazon, and more importantly, just changing the cultures where they work because of it.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Jeppe Lisdorf. He’s a consulting CFO living in San Diego, California, and now he’s with me here today. Jeppe, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And?”

Jeppe: Well, thank you. You literally made my dreams come true.

John: Thanks, dude. You’re too much, man. It’s literally like, I was like, hey, I’d love to have you on the show sometime because you said, “Hey, I love the podcast.” You were like, “What? That’d be great. “Literally, it’s, people who want to be on, email me. Let’s do it.

Jeppe: No joke. I’ve listened to you, every single podcast, since 150.

John: Wow.

Jeppe: I’m a huge fan.

John: Well, thanks. Hopefully I’m getting better, over time.

Jeppe: I don’t know. It’s difficult to improve on the Mona Lisa.

John: Oh, you’re too kind, man. You’re too kind. You’re already my favorite guest, and we haven’t even started. There we go. No, but thank you, Jeppe. Honestly, that really means a lot. You know the drill, 17 rapid-fire questions. We’re going to have some fun here.

Jeppe: What can I win?

John: What can you win? You can come back for the Follow-Up Friday.

Jeppe: Awesome. I’ll take it.

John: There you go. There you go. Alright, let’s start with, here’s one, oceans or mountains.

Jeppe: Oh, this is fun. I’m from Denmark, so, hands down, mountains because we don’t have any mountains in Denmark. Our tallest place is like 200 yards, 115 meters. My wife always makes fun of me that every time we’re out driving, like, oh, look, there’s a mountain. My wife is from here, so she’s like, “Yes, it’s a mountain.” She always jokes with me.

John: That’s funny. Every day, you’re surprised that they’re still there?

Jeppe: Yeah. No, it’s just literally like, I get to drive to this office where I work, and I see this huge old time mountain that’s out in the background. I’m always like, wow, it’s so beautiful. My wife just thinks, yeah, they’re still there.

John: Right? No, but it’s true. I live in Denver. I’ve only been here a couple of years, and it’s true. It takes your breath away. It’s almost like a wallpaper sort of a thing. Are they really there, or is it just a tarp that somebody put up?

Jeppe: It’s beautiful. I think because we’re Danish and we’re such a flat country, we have this inferiority that when we see mountains, we’re just blown away.

John: That’s awesome. Some people, they’re called pitcher’s mounds on baseball stadiums. That’s a mountain. That guy’s up on a mountain, playing baseball. No, that’s hilarious. All right, how about a favorite sports team?

Jeppe: Oh, shucks, favorite sports team, that would have to be the Green Bay Packers.

John: Oh, okay. All right. Wasn’t sure if we’re going soccer or —

Jeppe: No.

John: All right, Green Bay Packers, interesting. How about a favorite number?

Jeppe: Funny you should say that. It’s number 4 because of Brett Favre.

John: There you go. I was going to say, right in line. All right, and when it comes to books, Kindle, real books or audio version.

Jeppe: I never got the hang of Kindle. Audio books, I can’t pay attention. I did that in the car. I love books. I love the smell of books. My wife complains because they take up so much space in the house, but it’s just, I love books. I love the feeling of books, so, yeah, hands down.

John: Awesome, man. I’m with you on that one. I’m with you, for sure. How about, Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jeppe: I never understood Star Trek. Hands down, Star Wars. Star Wars number two, I saw that, literally, like 150 times. Next after The Big Lebowski, that is my most watched movie.

John: That is your favorite one, okay, and then Star Wars, okay. Wow, all right. More suit and tie or jeans and a T-shirt.

Jeppe: Hands down, suit and tie. I used to work for a company that had a lot of millennials, and they had — very dressed down. I respect, but I just feel that you have to be appropriately dressed. I’m sorry.

John: I enjoy a nice suit as well, especially once I realized that there are these made-to-measure companies, so they make them for people like me.

Jeppe: Yeah.

John: Because off the rack, it’s —

Jeppe: You mean handsome fellas?

John: Well, just lanky, I think is the word for it. It’s somewhat athletic but just the sleeves are too short for the shoulders then the waist is giant. It’s just dumb. The made-to-measure, they’re super fun. You can make your own inner lining. Yeah, I agree with you. Computer, PC or a Mac.

Jeppe: PC. I do Excel work. I, literally, I never use the mouse. I’ve learned everything in my head.

John: Oh, wow.

Jeppe: Literally. It will be hours before I touch the mouse. For me to relearn that with a Mac, I wouldn’t.

John: Yeah, all the hotkeys and the shortcuts.

Jeppe: Exactly. I’d rather just retire.

John: Right. I’d rather just win the lottery and then be done. How about puzzles, Sudoku or crossword?

Jeppe: Yeah, really none of those.

John: None of them. Right. Okay, fair enough. That works. How about a favorite ice cream flavor? I love ice cream.

Jeppe: That will be pistachio.

John: Oh, okay. Yeah, you don’t see that everywhere all the time.

Jeppe: No, that’s true.

John: How about a favorite color?

Jeppe: That will be blue.

John: Yeah, mine too. How about a least favorite color?

Jeppe: Oh, shucks. Yeah, I’m not a hater.

John: In case they’re listening, you don’t want to hurt their feelings.

Jeppe: Exactly.

John: That’s awesome. All right, here’s a fun one. Socks or shoes.

Jeppe: Both?

John: Both? Okay, I’ll give it to you. All right. No, somebody asked me that one a little bit ago, and I thought it was hilarious. So I’m having fun asking people that. How about, what’s a typical breakfast?

Jeppe: Yeah, that one’s bad. I used to have a great routine and just eating fruits in the morning. I did juices and stuff like that. Then life happens and you forget it. I’m really bad and inconsistent. That’s actually going back to what we’re going to talk about, my cycling thing, later. That is really the big thing that I need to get back to, doing better.

John: No, no. I’m not the healthiest individual when it comes to eating either, so it’s all good. I’m not judging for a second. I’m actually proud of you, to be honest. I’m not the only one, woohoo. All right, since you have the CFO accounting background, balance sheet or income statement.

Jeppe: Here’s a funny story. Obviously, just to answer your question, first of all, income statement. Now, a couple of years ago, I was interviewing for a job with Bloomberg for a financial analyst. They asked me, “What is the most important financial statement to tell you what’s going on with the company?” I was so nervous, and I did what some accountants tend to do. I was overthinking the question, so I ended up answering, statement of owner’s equity.

John: That’s awesome.

Jeppe: In my mind, I was thinking, oh, well, what can tell what happens to the company? Instead of just saying income statement, which is the obvious question, but that was too simple. I was overthinking it and came up with statement of owner’s equity.

John: Right, that’s hilarious. That’s super funny. All right, we’ve got three more. Favorite actor or actress.

Jeppe: That will have to be, either the dude from The Big Lebowski or Clint Eastwood. When I was in high school, we had a Clint Eastwood, a friend and me, and we would just meet every Sunday night and watch Clint Eastwood movies.

John: That’s fantastic.

Jeppe: It was.

John: There’s a ton of them.

Jeppe: There are, and they’re all great. The rule was you’re not allowed to talk when Clint Eastwood was in this scene.

John: That’s awesome. That’s so good. That’s so good. I wish that that was your “and” still.

Jeppe: Yes.

John: That would be awesome. How about, are you more of an early bird or a night owl?

Jeppe: Well, I’m probably more of a night owl right now. We just had kids. I take, literally, the whole night shift. I take it then my wife does everything else, so I guess I’m a night owl.

John: Okay. Okay. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Jeppe: I will say the favorite thing I own would be my bike, obviously. It’s not a super expensive bike, I’d say. When I was back just before college, I bought my first real racing bike. I had a girlfriend at the time, and she was complaining. She was like, “You spend so much money buying stuff for that bike, and I never get anything. Only when it’s my birthday do I get a present. Sometimes I wish I was that bike.” I mean, I really liked that bike.

John: That’s awesome. Right? The bike’s still with me.

Jeppe: Yeah, it’s very nice bike. Actually, I gave it to a friend of mine, so every time I’m visiting him, I still ride it.

John: That’s cool to hear, man. That dovetails perfectly. We’re talking about cycling.

Jeppe: Yes.

John: Yeah. So I guess you’ve been riding for a while. How did you get started with that?

Jeppe: It’s funny. I grew up watching cycling with my dad. That was like watching the Tour de France with him. It was something that some of my earliest memories are watching that with him. I never really got into it as a kid because if you want to buy a road bike, it’s way too expensive, even just getting a decent road bike. It’s not that my parents couldn’t afford it, but they were more like, “Hey, we want to make sure that you want to do this.” I was like, yeah, I’m not sure.

I played soccer as a kid. It was only when I turned 19 and I got my first job, I saved money and then I bought my first bike. That was the bike that I bought all those things for. Then I started competing. I got a good start on it. It was literally the summer before I started college. I was like, hey, I can be really good at this, or I can party and meet girls. Then option number two, one out, but it was funny because it reminded me of something in one of your Friday Follow-Ups a couple of weeks ago. Well, it was like back in November. There was a guy who, he was a jazz pianist.

John: Damien.

Jeppe: Damien, yeah. He said his frustration was that he didn’t play so much because he used to be able to play at a level, and he couldn’t play at that level anymore. That was exactly what happened to me because I thought, okay, I’m going to do the party scene in college and have fun, and I’m still going to cycle. What happens is, I used to be living breathing for cycling, all I thought about, eating, ride, practicing, ride. Then all of a sudden, okay, you don’t go for that many rides. All of a sudden, you can’t go on those three or four-hour rides. Now they become two-hour rides. What you see in a two-hour ride is not so much. You really don’t get out of the city. Eventually, it gets to a point where like, hey, why even bother.

What Damien said really connected with me because when you’ve done something at a certain level, you have standards for yourself and for the people around you. This goes both for an individual sport, and also for people sport or team sport. You’re used to being at a level. You see things. You experience things. If you play soccer or something that you used to be very high level, now all of a sudden, you’re a team that is low level because you don’t have the same time available as you used to. The people around you are not so good. All of a sudden, you see the game in a way where you’re like, hey, this is not fun, because the things that were fun were like — I don’t know. I know you’re a comedian. I think there’s something similar there.

You said something also way back. What makes Jerry Seinfeld fun is he said that joke 10,000 times. He has developed a pitch and a knowledge and his timing is perfect. The point is, if you stop doing comedy for years, do you still have that? I don’t know if it’s the same in comedy, but I know in many sports and people I know —

John: Totally. You get out of practice. You just get rusty, and you know in your brain — I mean, it’s similar to it. I used to play soccer as well, not as much anymore, but my brain says I can go and get that ball but then my body does not. Your brain is like, I know what can happen, I know what really good is, I know what I’m capable of; but that’s for somebody that dedicates a lot more time to it and practices more and all of that. At some point, you have to either say, look, it is what it is and whatever; or another big thing is just I enjoy cycling. It’s not at the same level, but I enjoy it and that works. That’s the thing that I think a lot of people, they either want to be, if they’re not world class then they’re nothing. There’s so much in between that’s still to be celebrated and shine a light on.

Jeppe: Good point, and you can still have fun doing that. That’s so true. Yeah.

John: Yeah, but you’re not alone in that. Obviously, Damien, I’m the same way. I can resonate with that totally. It is hard to just recognize that, yeah, it’s not the same level, but there’s still the joy. Hopefully, you can still find that.

Jeppe: Yeah. No, no, I refound my love for cycling, five years ago. That’s the thing. We’re not talking about something that’s 20 years ago. No, no.

John: No, no, no, of course not. I knew that.

Jeppe: Yeah, and that’s the thing. In between, I had a love affair with cricket. That was also cool, but, yeah, I rediscovered cycling here about three to five years ago. It just started with, I got a road bike, a really, really good road bike, and then I took some classes. We have a velodrome, a track here in San Diego.

John: Oh, yeah, those are the small — those are intense, man. Those are great.

Jeppe: Are you kidding me? It’s the best. Now, what do you call, it’s almost like a calling to me that I want the velodrome cycling to grow bigger. Because here’s my point, John, if there had been a velodrome in my hometown when I was growing up, I would have been one of the best cyclists. I mean, it’s easy to say that. My point is, because track bikes, you can get a perfectly fine track bike for $500. If you’re a kid, you can ride that one to every single thing. Yes, you’re not going to have the fanciest bike, but it’s good enough. That’s the point. It’s not the same with road bikes.

Here’s the thing, I got into track cycling, okay, then I ended up buying my first track bike. That was just like 500 bucks. I was like, okay. I love the track because the competition is so intense. The thing is, we have Friday night races. You go Friday. There’s warm-up at seven and then there are three races that are five to 10 minutes each. You just go all out there, and that’s awesome. Then at night, you’re done. Hey, that’s so good. Either you won some or you lost some, but you had so much fun. Everybody is in just communal spirit, and they’re just making it happen. So I fell so much back in love with cycling, and it consumes me. It got to the point where, actually, last year, I did more miles than I’ve ever done. At 41, I did more miles than I’ve ever done at any stage in my life.

John: Good for you.

Jeppe: Yeah.

John: Yeah. That’s fantastic, man. I think it’s cool too, because it sounds like there’s also a community to it. Because cycling can be very individual but when there’s a community to it, then there are people that have a genuine interest in you, and you have a genuine interest in them.

Jeppe: Yeah.

John: It’s a group thing.

Jeppe: It’s so cool. You go there. You ride the first race. Then you’re talking trash because there’s always someone younger than you. You’re sitting there on the benches after the race, and you’re just calming yourself. There’s always this young hotshot who goes to San Diego State University or something like that, and he’s always faster than you. I just try to egg him on or do something, but that’s just fine.

John: Get it in his head.

Jeppe: Exactly. This is the point. That’s one thing I believe very much. When it comes to sports, like you say, get in his head. It’s okay to do that. It’s probably not completely sportsmanship.

John: It doesn’t matter.

Jeppe: Here’s the thing, and this is something that’s very important to me. I learned this while playing cricket actually. When I played cricket, I would go all out to win. Everything within the rules, I would do that. The point is, I would be the most fierce competitor. This thing is, when the game is over, I’d be the first one to go in the bar. Hey, let’s have a beer and talk about the game and just have fun. Because that’s the point, you have to be really, really competitive and go all out in the moment and then afterwards, maybe somebody treated you wrong, or there was something that didn’t go your way, forget about it because we’re all friends.

There’s a competition. When you step outside the line, you’re over. You’re best friends. I think that’s the spirit of the sport. That’s the spirit of the way I always played the game, both the game of cricket and in cycling. I don’t mind being really, really — I mean, I become a different person when I’m on the bike. It’s very, very respectful. I always talk to people, like, hey, afterwards. Make sure that outside of the track, we’re communal, but I will talk trash. I’ll say anything I can to win when I’m in the race or when I’m playing the game or whatever. The point is, you have to also just remember that we’re all human. Your competitors are human, and they want to win too. Just let them know that, hey, it’s nothing personal. I like you as a person. I just want to win.

John: Right. It’s that simple. It really is. That’s exactly it. Actually, as you were describing that, it reminds me of a lot of times when I was in corporate world of, you’re in a boardroom and you’re hashing out ideas. Somebody says something, and you’re like, there’s no way. That is a terrible idea, do not even put it on the board, whatever. After, it’s like, let’s go to lunch. It’s not personal. It’s just how it is. Do you feel like the cycling and/or the cricket gives you a skill in some way that translates to work?

Jeppe: Yes. One of the things I work with, it’s bursts of intensity. When you’re riding a race, you’re not going all out, all the time. You have to be like 80 to 85%. Sometimes you’re 90 and then you’re back to 85, knowing that and like — I know a lot of people, and especially in accounting, and no disrespect, I know people are talking about working 60 to 70-hour weeks. I’m not sure how factually correct that is, but that’s not my problem. My thing is, if you are working those long hours, you need to conserve your energy. You need to look after yourself.

That’s one of the things I’ve learned where, when I have a long day and I know I’m coming in for 12, 14-hour day, I know I’m not going all out the entire day. I need to space my day. I need to do something where I’m like, hey, now I have to be really, really on point. Now there’s something where I can do, for instance, a reconciliation or something that doesn’t require much brain but just more repetitive. You put your headphones on, you listen to music, and then you come back.

It’s that thing where, always having the the main goal in mind. For me, training for events, for cycling, when you train for an event, like let’s say I had the Masters Track State Championship last year. I was training for that for two months. What you do is, when you’re in training, not to go into details because I’m very much a nerd with this, and I’m going to bore, whatever listeners are still left, I’m going to bore them away.

John: No, don’t think of yourself like that.

Jeppe: No, but the point is, when you have cycling, there are different levels of intensities. Let’s just call them green, yellow and red. Green is like you walking around. You can do that indefinitely. That’s the type of intensity. Yellow is the one where you can do, let’s say, 6, 8, 10 hours, because it’s that. The normal person can probably do one to two hours, but a decent trained person should be able to do four to six hours or whatever. Then there’s red where you can’t do more than an hour.

John: Yeah.

Jeppe: The point is you need to space your practice so that, for instance, during a week, if I were riding four times, I would only go into the red, twice, once, maybe twice. The point is, when you’re out on a Thursday afternoon, and there’s this hotshot coming around you on the bike path, and you’re like, hey, if I just go up to this intensity, I can follow him. No, that’s going to bring me in the red. The thing is, when you go into red, you break down the body. That’s the thing. You can only break down the body so many times within a given week.

So, having that month-long perspective, in the moment when you’re there, now something is really big to me because when I was the CFO for a big Amazon selling company, I knew I had to report financials on the fifth business day of the month. I knew, what do I need to do to get there? I can’t be stressed out the entire month. The first five business days of the month, yes, I can be stressed out.

John: Very intense, yeah.

Jeppe: Very intense, and everything has to do there. Then I have some days for consolidation and then I have some days for improving things. That’s the thing where, I always had this thing in my mind where it’s like, okay, I can maybe stay here until midnight. Or I can come in tomorrow and be more focused. This is the thing.

It was actually funny and that was where my “and” became really big to me because I had a period where I was very stressed out. I think the biggest thing I learned from cycling is to manage burnout. I never burned out even though I had very, very busy years getting to where I’m at, but I got to a point where I was like, hey, I need to do this. I need to stay these insane hours in the office like everybody else. Then I was like, hey, you know what, if I don’t go out on my bike, I’m not going to have a fit body. If I don’t have a fit body, I’m not going to be able to think properly. I’m not going to be able to contribute.

It got to a point where I went to my boss and said, “Hey, Ian,” this wonderful man, Ian, who gave me a chance. I’ll always be grateful for him. I said to him, “Ian, I need to go out cycling three days a week. I can’t go Friday, Saturday, Sunday, so Tuesdays and Thursdays, I’m going to leave the office at 3 pm.” He was just, yeah, whatever you need. He supported me in that. What ended up happening was I didn’t work more hours because the hours I was there, I was much more focused. That was the point because it was at a point where, when my stress level was growing, it’s like, well, I’m just going to cut out this bike ride. I’m going to cut out this one. You get to a point where, going back to what Damien talked about.

I’ll say, for cycling, I would much rather go three times a week, like 30 miles, three times a week than 30 miles once a week. Because it’s so much easier when you get in the habit of doing it because then it just becomes, hey, I have to make a mental decision to go out. That drains on you. When it’s discipline, like I said, Tuesdays and Thursdays at 3:00 p.m., I leave the office.

John: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, that’s so awesome. Not only that they embraced that, but how beneficial it was for you to be more focused when you were in the office then because the work still got done. Like you brought up, the first thing we cut is our “and”. Hey, I’m too busy, so now I need to stop doing those things. It’s the opposite. It’s, I’m too busy. I need to still make time for cycling or whatever your thing is. I love that example for people.

Jeppe: I went through a transition earlier in the year where I left the job because the culture wasn’t right. I was like, okay, well, I needed to get in the next thing. I was like, okay, well, I should be really, really busy looking at, and I was, but I was like, no, I have to be really, really busy keeping my discipline with my “and”, going out on my bike three times a week to make sure I stay fit because everything else — I mean, it doesn’t matter adding extra hours, if that’s all you do. They have to be quality hours. That’s, again, something I learned from cycling.

It doesn’t matter if you practice. It has to be quality of practice. There has to be a point with what you’re doing. If you are just, let’s say, you’re looking for a job, hey, I have to look for a job, eight hours a day. Well, if that’s your outcome, then your input is just going to be sitting in a chair, eight hours a day. If your outcome is, I have to get X amount of interviews, or I have to send this amount of applications or something that is geared towards that, then you can do that. Then that will leave you the time to go and do your “and”, which makes you grow, and that makes you more attractive.

John: Yeah, I love that. That’s such a great takeaway for everybody listening. That’s awesome, man. This has been so good, so many nuggets. I’m just blown away right now. My brain hurts.

Jeppe: Thank you. I really appreciate that.

John: It’s just cool to hear you living and breathing what’s your “and”, and that it’s not just theory. It’s actually applicable and it works. That’s awesome.

Jeppe: I think the thing is, to me, it was difficult to share my “and” in the beginning because it’s really like, sometimes we’re not sure if we’re going to be taken seriously, especially like me because, like I say, in accounting, especially corporate finance, everybody’s like, yeah, I’m working 60 hours. Well, I’m not because Tuesdays and Fridays, I leave at 3 pm to go out cycling, and I get the job done within the hours that I’m there. That is something that it’s a little provocative to say that to people.

By the way, John, before we finish, I do want to give a shout-out to my wife. I know we’ve been talking about our “and”, but my wife, she is literally my everything.

John: That’s awesome, man.

Jeppe: Sorry, I get emotional because —

John: No.

Jeppe: I wouldn’t be here today and I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing, not only in my career, but also having a wife that understands me, that understands I need to do my “and”. So, my wife, she’s my everything, and cycling is my “and”.

John: For sure. That’s really cool to hear. Yeah, you’re a lucky dude. That’s for sure.

Jeppe: Thank you.

John: That’s for sure, man. It’s not just one “and”. There’s other — family and stuff like that, I look as different than the “and”. The “and” is more just for you. I love that you have all of those sides. Now the kids, and you’re a busy, busy dad.

Jeppe: I’m living a blessed life. I could not believe to live so blessed. Again, I say, I wouldn’t be living this life if it wasn’t for my wife because she is the one who inspires me more than anything. She deserves the world. Again, I humbly say that I wouldn’t be where I am today if it wasn’t for her. My wife is so smart because she always keeps me out of trouble.

John: Right?

Jeppe: There was once, like accepting a job, and she was like, no, no, you don’t want to do that. Another time, I was about to buy a house. My wife doesn’t really interfere. She lets me be me all the time. She lets me have my “and” and everything, but she just stops me from doing the stupidest things. Every great thing I have achieved would have been annihilated because of the stupid things I would have done if she hadn’t stopped me.

John: That’s awesome. That’s so awesome. Yeah, very cool, man. Well, before we wrap this up, though, it’s only fair, since I was questioning you out at the beginning, it’s only fair for me to turn the tables and let you question me. So, welcome, everyone, to the first episode of the Jeppe podcast. Thanks for having me on.

Jeppe: Yeah, thank you very much for being on the podcast, John. I don’t hesitate to say that you were the first one I wanted to have on the podcast when I started.

John: Thank you, man. You’re a good guy.

Jeppe: So, Fahrenheit or Celsius.

John: Oh, yeah, I’m going to go Fahrenheit just because it’s what I grew up with. Yeah, it’s just easier for me.

Jeppe: I know you’re a huge sports guy, as well as me, I mean, mainly college sports. If you could choose, and I’m not talking about being the trombone player, but like playing on the actual team, what sports team in history would you most like to have been a part of?

John: Oh, yeah. Well, I graduated from Notre Dame, and I’m a huge Notre Dame football fan, so just to play Notre Dame football would be pretty awesome.

Jeppe: Is there a particular year?

John: Oh, wow. Well, ‘88 was when they won the national championship, so that’s a good year. I was there when Coach Holtz was there. He wrote the foreword for the book as well. I think playing for him, he’s definitely a hard coach to play for, but he really, really cares. So, yeah, somewhere in there, that ‘88 to ‘93, those were some pretty glory years.

Jeppe: By the way, I really love the foreword that he wrote. It was really, really nice.

John: Oh, thanks. Yeah.

Jeppe: I mean, I wanted to read the book before I read that, but I wanted to read it even more after I read what he wrote.

John: Well, thanks, man. Yeah, he was really generous to do that, really, really generous.

Jeppe: Next question, would you start Rudy?

John: That’s perfect, and no, I would not. Yeah, you get into play and here — I mean, because I was friends with some walk-ons even when I was in school. They work so hard, if not more, than the players that are starting because they have arguably a little less talent, but they have all the heart. It’s really impressive to see them just basically get their butt kicked every day, in order for the starters to get better. They get no glory, no TV time, no playing time hardly. It’s those people that just love the game. It’s impressive, but I still wouldn’t start him, the hell no.

Jeppe: Would you play him at all?

John: Yeah, I think he gets in. You have to play him. The guy worked so hard to get there that you’ve got to get in for a play. There’s got to be a finish to the story. It can’t be like, yeah, so I was on the team. When did you play? I never got in. What? That’s a terrible story. I don’t want to be the one to ruin it.

That’s awesome, Jeppe. Thank you so much for being a part of What’s Your “And”? It’s been really, really cool to have you be a part of this.

Jeppe: Thank you for the opportunity, John. I really appreciate this.

John: For sure, and everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Jeppe outside of work, or on his bike or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. Everything’s there. While you’re there on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to check out the book.

Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.