Episode 413 – Tim Barr

Tim is an Executive & Ultrarunner

Tim Barr talks about how he discovered ultrarunning, why he got into it, and how it has helped shape his perspective when tackling issues at the office! Tim also talks about how his office promotes discussions outside of work among coworkers.

Episode Highlights

• Getting into ultrarunning
• Taking on challenges in the office
• Show and tell and stand-up nights in the office
• “Connect” meetings




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Tim’s Photos

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Tim at the 2021 Desert Rats Stage race

Tim at the 2021 Desert Rats Stage race

Tim at the 2021 Desert Rats Stage race

Tim at the 2019 Leadville 100 race where he ran a 24 hour race for a big buckle award.

Tim’s Links


  • Read Full TranscriptOpen or Close

    Welcome to Episode 413 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and”, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

    If you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. If you want me to read the book to you, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. The book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to corporate culture, and I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon and, more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

    Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Tim Barr. He’s a Senior Vice President, Office Practice Leader for CannonDesign in Denver, Colorado, and now he’s with me here today. Tim, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

    Tim: Thanks for having me on, man.

    John: This is going to be so much fun. It was so cool to meet you in the book club, that was awesome, when I crashed it.

    Tim: It blew my mind. I came home right away. I’m like, we had book club, and the author showed up. It’s amazing. How often does that happen?

    John: No, I love jumping in on book clubs. I’m honored and flattered that people have read the book. The least I can do is jump in and chat with everybody.

    Tim: That was really cool.

    John: Yeah, absolutely. Several questions I didn’t ask during book club, my rapid-fire. Here we go. Get to know Tim. Star Wars or Star Trek.

    Tim: Star Wars.

    John: Okay. Yeah, me too. Me too. How about your computer, more of a PC or a Mac?

    Tim: PC because I have to be.

    John: Right. Okay. All right. Yeah. That’s how work happens usually. How about a favorite movie of all time?

    Tim: Point Break.

    John: Oh, okay.

    Tim: The original.

    John: There you go. Yeah.

    Tim: Keanu Reeves.

    John: Right. Wow. Okay. That’s awesome. Yeah, I was like that came out of nowhere. That is a great movie. Yeah. How about a favorite ice cream flavor? I’m a huge ice cream junkie.

    Tim: Peanut butter chocolate.

    John: Oh, yeah. That’s always a good mix.

    Tim: Super good.

    John: How about rain or snow?

    Tim: I’ll go with snow.

    John: Yeah, me too. I hate rain so much.

    Tim: Yeah, it’s depressing.

    John: Yeah. It’s like nothing fun, I mean, it’s good for growing things, but do it at night or something when I’m not outside.

    Tim: Right. It’s raining right now, and it’s just been one of those days.

    John: Yeah, exactly. It’s like, and I got to talk to John, this is just me.

    Tim: Oh.

    John: Exactly. How about a favorite adult beverage?

    Tim: I have transitioned into drinking NAs.

    John: Oh, okay.

    Tim: Yeah. I found this great company called Athletic Brewing. They brew real beer. There’s no hangover, and I can have four or five and be good to go.

    John: And it’s an adult beverage because you can’t just have them as kids.

    Tim: Yeah, I can’t just hand them out to my nine-year-olds.

    John: Right.

    Tim: It’s kind of a new thing for me.

    John: Cool, man. No, I love it. That’s awesome. How about a favorite number?

    Tim: Any odd number.

    John: Oh, okay. All right. Is there a reason?

    Tim: Because I’m a little odd.

    John: Okay. Right. Actually I should have known that. I should have known that. I love it, man. Okay, how about books, audio version, e-book or real book?

    Tim: Audio books.

    John: Okay.

    Tim: I run a lot and and listen to a lot of books.

    John: Yeah, you probably, I mean, on those ultra-marathons, you probably put Gone with the Wind twice.

    Tim: Yeah it’s done in like a run.

    John: Right. Yeah, exactly. How about a favorite Disney character?

    Tim: Disney and Star Wars now, right? Maybe the Mandalorian.

    John: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, totally. I think anything animated or whatever counts for me. How about puzzles, Sudoku or crossword?

    Tim: Crossword.

    John: Crossword. There you go. All right. How about a favorite color?

    Tim: Black.

    John: Black. Nice.

    Tim: Because it goes with everything.

    John: Yeah, it does. You’re right. How about a least favorite color?

    Tim: Maybe orange.

    John: Yeah.

    Tim: Yeah. I’m a Broncos fan, so I have some orange stuff but.

    John: Right, not on purpose. If they decided to change their colors, we wouldn’t cry. We’d be all right.

    Tim: Yeah.

    John: Exactly. Here’s a tricky one, pizza or hamburger.

    Tim: Hamburger.

    John: Hamburger. There you go.

    Tim: Yeah.

    John: Loaded up.

    Tim: Yep.

    John: How about a favorite actor or actress?

    Tim: That’s a tricky one. I’m going to go with Robert De Niro.

    John: Oh, yeah. Of course. He’s good in everything.

    Tim: He’s good in everything.

    John: Yeah, he really is, really is. Would you say you’re more of an early bird or a night owl?

    Tim: Early bird.

    John: Early Bird. Okay.

    Tim: Yeah, up early.

    John: Yeah. Interesting. All right, two more. How about a least favorite vegetable?

    Tim: Probably Brussels sprouts.

    John: Oh, yeah.

    Tim: I’m still really trying to like these things, but I can’t, quite. I’m like, how much can I fry this and throw it in honey? If you heat your vegetable up that much, it’s not good.

    John: Yeah, exactly. This is too much work. Bacon with a little bit of Brussels sprouts, okay, then I’ll eat that. Totally. I didn’t try to fry it up with some honey. That sounds interesting. I’ll maybe give that a go. I don’t know. Maybe not. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

    Tim: Favorite thing I have, I think they’re one and the same. I have my first bike when I was a kid, and I restored it. It’s a 1981 Mongoose Motomag BMX. It is awesome. If the house is burning down, if the family was safe, I’d go grab the bike.

    John: Right. A Mongoose, man, that is solid.

    Tim: It is awesome.

    John: Yeah, I was Team Murray. That was the generic Mongoose. Mongoose is amazing, man. That’s awesome. Very cool.

    Tim: I think my parents mortgaged the house or something to buy this bike.

    John: Right? Good for you, man.

    Tim: I still have it. It looks brand new.

    John: That’s really cool. Leads into, I guess, ultra running, ultra marathoning, ultra whatever. Anything with the word ultra, and it makes me nervous. Ultra running, how did you get started with that?

    Tim: The story is funny because my son was really young, less than a year old, and I was working in Golden. When you have kids, you’re not sleeping, and you’re just trying to do whatever you can to stay fit. I found that I could go out and run South Table Mountain, which is a mountain here in Colorado, and get 45 minutes of running in, and it was probably the best workout I could get in without having to go to the gym and do all that other stuff.

    I got into trail running. I had a couple of friends that were into doing longer distance stuff up in the mountains. The ultra-running people were their own thing. I had read Chris McDougall’s Born to Run book. I read Ultramarathon Man by Dean Karnazes. Really cool to read about but it was like zero interest. Miles like that, that’s crazy stuff. I’ll do my 45 minutes. I’m good.

    In, I guess it’d be like 2014, I had the opportunity to pace at the Leadville 100. An athlete that I, it was like a friend of a friend, and she needed a pacer. She wanted someone to pace her from mile 50 to mile 75. Further than I’d ever run on trail before, and it’s the infamous Leadville 100 run, which is world-famous, probably one of the bigger 100-mile distance events here in the US. I’m like, yeah, man, I’ll go and just experience it all. So I trained to pace her, and I was like, I don’t know how this is going to go. Hopefully she gets to the top.

    John: You don’t even get the T-shirt. You literally didn’t even get, right?

    Tim: No. I just went for the experience of it all.

    John: Just a dude hanging out in the woods and then a lady comes along. You’re like, hey, I’ll run with you. All right.

    Tim: My wife’s all right with it, let’s go.

    John: Right. Right.

    Tim: Leadville is a magical place. It sits at 10,000 feet above sea level. It’s this really old mining town. There’s a lot of history there. You can kind of feel it as you walk down the streets. The architecture is still super old. There’s just something kind of magical about all the energy at that race. So I picked up Christina, was her name. I picked her up. You go over Hope Pass which is like 12,600 feet. She was really struggling to get up this thing. We got up, and you could just see the world from up there. The sun is going down. I was like, this is amazing. Probably some of the cooler scenery I’d seen out on a trail and just seeing all these athletes out there running. We had a huge adventure getting her to mile 76. She wound up finishing the race.

    I got in the car at two in the morning at this station called Outbound. It’s freezing cold. I just sit in the backseat. My wife is there, my friend Seth, my friend Lauren. Julie’s my wife’s name. She looks over at me, and she’s like, how was it? I just had a look in my eyes. She’s like, oh, God, are you serious? I was like, I didn’t say anything. I don’t know. I think you have this thing. I just had this thing of like, this is freaking possible. It didn’t seem so scary. Just watching her come out and do this and watching all these other athletes do it, that kind of turned me onto the sport. The next year, I trained, and I did a couple of 50k’s, which was like 31 miles. I did a 50-miler that summer. Yeah. Then in 2016, I went and did the Leadville 100. That was my first 100 marathon.

    John: Congrats, man.

    Tim: Yeah.

    John: That’s very cool. Mostly is it trail running? Is that like just trails that are out in nature, and then they block them off for slowpokes, and you actually run on it? Is that basically the idea?

    Tim: Yeah. The trails aren’t really blocked. They’re still open. It’s essentially just trail running. It’s a combination. You don’t run the whole time. They call it 100-mile foot race. You head out from Leadville at 4 am, and you run. You have 30 hours to finish. At 10:00 the next morning, they shoot a shotgun on the main street in Leadville, and the race is over.

    John: Whoever is here is here.

    Tim: Whoever is here is here. I encourage anybody who’s even, even if you’re not really interested in ultra-running, but just to go up there and volunteer for a weekend. It’s right in our own backyard here in Colorado. It’s pretty fantastic.

    John: That’s awesome. 100 mile, is that like from here to Canada and back?

    Tim: Yeah.

    John: We run to the ocean, and then we run New York City. No, but that’s far, man. That’s impressive.

    Tim: It is far. Yeah, it’s far. Since then, I’ve ran Leadville twice, I’ve done the Tahoe 100 and a few other 100k events and stuff, which is 62 miles, but your normal gauge just gets shifted. It’s like someone could be training for a 5k, and that’s a big thing for them. It’s awesome. Then they train for a half marathon and then the 5k doesn’t seem like as big a deal. They’re like, I finished this thing. It’s the same thing. I know it sounds crazy, but ultra running is going crazy right now. There are 250-mile events now.

    John: Holy cow, man.

    Tim: Yeah.

    John: That’s impressive. You just run 24 hours or something or more?

    Tim: Yeah. The 200-milers, you usually have four or five days. It’s still a continuous clock, but there’s a bunch of sleep strategy worked into that. The pros are trying to figure it out because they’re like, how far can I push it without sleeping? They’re hallucinating at the end. It’s like sleep deprivation. They’re seeing things. As of now, I have zero desire to go that far.

    John: Right. Right. You said that eight years ago, buddy.

    Tim: Never say never, man. Yeah.

    John: Yeah, that’s really cool, just to push beyond what you thought was impossible because you were able to see just a little bit and then be like, oh, I could do that. These ultra-athletes are also struggling and working their way through it and at their own pace as well. When I hear 100 miles running, I’m like, what? It’s not. It’s walking some. Some days are bad days. No, that’s cool, though. Do you feel at all, the ultra-running is a skill set that you’ve brought to work, over the years?

    Tim: Yeah. There are so many parallels to an event. Some of the stuff I’ve learned about myself, because you’re out there solo a lot and really hurting, I probably made my lowest lows during some of these races. Then something will happen, and you just keep moving forward, one foot in front of the other, and get some nutrition in. Somehow, the wave turns, and you go over the next hill, or the sun comes up or whatever it is. You realize, I was at death’s door, and now I’m fine.

    With business, a lot of times, especially this last year was really tough on a lot of people, and it’s been a roller coaster with COVID in the world. We’ve seen recessions in the past too that have really impacted our economy, but the emotion of it all never really got to me because I think, as a leader, the reality that I saw is we were just hit in a low point in the race. We’re going to hit multiple low points. Really, you just put one foot in front of the other, and you just keep going through and make decisions that hopefully are going to help propel us in a direction where we don’t have to DNF the race. The parallels there are really big. I pull from that so much. I have so much mental strength now to deal with adversity and down times that I never had before I started all this.

    John: Yeah, because, like you said, it’s just pushing what you thought was the ceiling or the boundary or the whatever, and be like, oh, it’s not even close actually. Or I’ve been through this before, I felt this feeling, and I’m alive. I made it, so we’ll make it too, type of thing.

    Tim: I think the other big thing too is a lot of, and I’m a planner myself, but I think it’s Muhammad Ali, he’s just like, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

    John: Right. Which is a great quote.

    Tim: It’s like, yeah, I plan. You always have a race plan. I don’t care. It doesn’t have to be an ultra marathon. I tell that to people all the time. It can be anything, any event you’re training for, something you want to do, but it’s always good to have a plan. It’s always going to change. It’s always going to be a little bit different out there. The weather could be bad. The weather could be good. How are you going to persevere and get through it? Some people want that so scripted out that they’re scared to even start.

    John: Yeah, that’s true.

    Tim: How do I take the first step? If you want to be a runner, or you’re sitting at home and you’re depressed about your whatever, your weight or your this or your that; really, you have to just lace up your shoes and just go. That’s the beauty of running to me is like it’s just such a purest form of that thing. You don’t have to go out and buy a bike and all this other stuff to be a cyclist.

    John: You don’t need a team, uniforms even.

    Tim: Just go get a pair of shoes and go running, or go walking or hiking or whatever it is you want to do. It’s a beautiful metaphor for work because there’s a lot of hard decisions that you have to make or initiatives that you want to start. Nothing’s really scripted out. You don’t know how it’s going to end up. It’s like, you know what, let’s just try to start this thing and see what we can learn from it. It definitely plays into work every single day.

    John: I love that. That’s awesome. Is this something that comes up at work? Do people know that you just ran half the State, when you come into work on Monday or whatever?

    Tim: They do. I think that the trick with running and ultra-running in particular, is just making it relatable. Because it’s the joke, there’s Tim doing his thing, but you’ve got to bring it back into some things that make sense. We’ve got to keep moving this to the low point. Once a month, I send just an update out to the office. Hey, here’s big picture stuff, what’s going on, here’s what we’re seeing I try it. We have a bunch of maxims which are like values at our organization. I usually tie a theme to a particular value. Most of my stories are running stories that I relate back. I’m like, hey, this is what was happening at this point. There’s a healthy respect for stuff that I’m out there doing.

    John: Yeah, definitely. It also opens that vacuum for other people to then fill it with their “and”. You’re sharing, and I think it’s cool that as an Office Practice Leader, you’re openly sharing. It’s showing them that, hey, you’re allowed too, as well. It’s not just you giving it lip service and then not doing it. It’s, no, no, I’m actually just going to walk the walk. I think that’s cool.

    Tim: Yeah, it’s definitely cool. It doesn’t matter what you’re into. We have some Ironman triathletes in my office. They’re, oh, yeah, I just had this adventure. Really, the whole thing for my running is that I get to see more. The big excuse is that I can go out, see 20, 30 miles of trail or some mountainous area over a weekend that it takes somebody else five days to hike.

    John: Yeah, yeah.

    Tim: It’s my excuse to just get out and see a lot and have an adventure.

    John: And then you’re efficient. I love that. It’s efficiency.

    Tim: There’s so much of the world to see. I just need to go out and see it.

    John: Listen to the audio book on double speed. I run a trail. I’ve just got things to do. I love that, man. I think that’s awesome. As an example for people in the office, I really like that. That’s cool. Then people know that, actually, this is the norm. We do talk about these things. They come up, and that’s how it goes around here, which I think is cool. Before you got into the ultra-running, was there something else that you would share? Or was this the thing that kind of kicked the door open?

    Tim: Yeah, I’ve always, well, not always, but I got into more just traditional endurance sports, a little bit of triathlon, some cycling and stuff like that. Probably, I was in my mid-20s when I started doing that, and it was cool. I discovered this whole community of people that like to ride bikes, as opposed to play golf. They’re like, well, you want to go ride bikes? I’m like, yeah, let’s go ride bikes.

    John: Right. Yeah.

    Tim: It’s always the sport aspect is I was just so unhealthy, physically, after college that I found endurance sports as a way to get healthier, start just being better about my mind and my body, and bringing that to the work. It’s always been a cool point of conversation with people. People are always curious. How does this all work?

    John: Right. Yeah. Because so many people, there’s a demon in our head, or whatever it is, that tells us, don’t share, don’t talk about it, don’t tell anybody that you do anything besides more work when you go home, or whatever the lies are that we tell ourselves. Did that ever cross your brain? Or was it just, well, you asked, so I’m going to tell you?

    Tim: Yeah, totally. I think I’ve always looked a little bit younger than I am, and so I think there’s a tendency, when I was getting started in my career in leadership and management and those sort of things, that I just wanted to be professional Tim at the office.

    John: Oh, yeah.

    Tim: My wife, Julie, she’d make fun of me because she’s like, you have two separate wardrobes. You’ve got your cycling and surfing wardrobe, we were in San Diego at the time, and then your work stuff.

    John: Yeah.

    Tim: I was like, well, maybe I should start wearing my Chuck Taylors with my suits.

    John: Right?

    Tim: She’s like, you should. Just be yourself.

    John: I would remember that, that’s for sure.

    Tim: So I have. I haven’t worn a pair of dress shoes to work in, I don’t know, 20 years because I’m like, that’s just part of me, but it’s taken a while to embrace that because, I don’t know why. It’s like a weird, like, I’d love to book for that reason because we all have these things that we do. Somebody in my office that paints pastel paintings. I’ve another person that crochets, and they’re like, nobody’s going to care about my crochets. We started doing show-and-tell on Mondays that are stand-up.

    John: Yes.

    Tim: People were like, look at this crochet. Someone brought a baby Yoda, Mandalorian crochet thing that she made for a boyfriend. It was awesome. Awesome.

    John: Now she has an order for 20 more for everybody else.

    Tim: Can you crochet me a beanie? That would be so rad.

    John: Right?

    Tim: Yeah.

    John: Yeah, that is so cool to hear. That’s such a great example. We did show-and-tell in preschool and kindergarten, and then stopped. Why? Now we’re adults, we have all the cool things.

    Tim: Totally. Yeah.

    John: I love that, man. That’s so cool to hear, the reactions from people.

    Tim: COVID had a lot of really positive outcomes in that regard because we’re all virtual and so people can just walk across their house and grab something. Be like, this is meaningful to me, or this is what I’m into. Looking back on it, I should have just been open, just be myself and be authentic the whole time because no one really cares. You’re still professional and do your job. I thought there was some sort of game to be played that didn’t really need to be played.

    John: Yeah, you’re not alone, man. You’re not alone. I was sort of there, but I was also too dumb to know. When somebody’s like, hey, so what did you do this weekend? Well, I drove to Springfield, Illinois, and did a comedy show. It’s like, wait, you did what? I’m like, well, you asked. I didn’t know I was supposed to say nothing. Yeah. It’s so cool because that person gets to light up when they’re talking about knitting or crocheting, because I know there’s a huge difference and somebody just flipped their lid. Also too, it’s interesting. Now we have something to talk about and ask about and all that stuff. We’re not in seventh grade anymore where the outlier gets made fun of. Now it’s, celebrate that and shine a light on that. That’s cool to hear that that’s what you’re doing in your office. That’s cool, man.

    Tim: It’s really cool. Personally, outside of it all, I’m personally really interested in what people are doing. I’m like, that’s awesome.

    John: Right? Tell me more.

    Tim: That’s awesome. Yeah.

    John: No, I love it, man. I think that’s so great. How much is it on that organization to create that space where this is the thing that we do? Or how much is it on the individual to maybe start in their little small circle?

    Tim: I think, as leaders, we can create the space and then the individuals need to put themselves out there and be vulnerable enough to be like, okay, here’s the light into my personal life, and to break down that wall. Because it can be hard, and people are hesitant for a number of reasons. They might have had a bad experience getting too close to somebody at work at some point, and they don’t want to do that again.

    I really look at it, from my perspective as a leader, and not all offices are the same as CannonDesign, but we have a stand-up every Monday morning that’s half an hour. We can do anything we want in that half an hour. It’s like, hey, here’s what’s happening in the office. Here’s what’s happening in terms of marketing. We have this thing that we just created a year ago called Connect, and we have a once-a-month Connect meeting. It’s an hour and a half of space that we can do a variety of exercises, bring in guest speakers, whatever we want to do there, and we have a microcosm of that on our Monday morning meetings. We have our five minutes to connect. For a while, everybody put in their favorite country, and then we had Connect trivia. People voted on it. Oh, my god, Jericho went wherever. You get to hear about what other people are doing, or their favorite vacation or whatever it might be. Show-and-tell is like that next progression. I like show-and-tell a lot more. I think it’s way more fun and individualized.

    John: No, I love it, man. Those are also perfect examples for people to take with them tomorrow. You can literally do these. These are simple. They’re almost free. I mean, they are actually free. It’s just a little bit of time. As a leader, how much is it okay to take the foot off the pedal? Sure, sometimes there’s really hard work that needs to be done. We’ve got to buckle down, and let’s do this. That’s not every day, five days a week, type of thing.

    Tim: Right, and it matters. I got a text from somebody. I went to Grand Canyon this last weekend to do a round-trip with some friends, and I got a text from one of my senior coworkers last night, with some sort of TikTok video. Because we did the rim-to-rim-to-rim run, so we went across, and then we came all the way back. He’s like, hey, I found this TikTok thing, so cool you did that.

    John: That’s awesome.

    Tim: Not work related at all, but it was like, stuff means something. It’s cool.

    John: Yeah. Yeah. Because that’s what lights you up, and so if you’re asking somebody about that thing, then, wow. They get me Tim. They don’t get me senior vice president, office practice leader guy, whatever. No, no. You get me, which is cool.

    Tim: I need you to make that introduction next meeting I have.

    John: Right. Right.

    Tim: There’s two, mister. There’s Vice President guy.

    John: Matt Foley from, Chris Farley, SNL, a little bit of like office practice leader guy, living in a van down by the river. That’s awesome. I can totally do that for you. Yeah, so before we wrap this up, though, because this has been so, so good, are there any words of encouragement to others that maybe have a hobby that feel like no one’s going to care because it has nothing to do with my job?

    Tim: Yeah, man, I would just say, take the first step. People are interested in you as a human being, first and foremost. It’s hard to put yourself out there, but just take that first step. Put yourself out there, share with somebody, talk to your office leader, and see if you can’t find a space for that. Those would be my things.

    John: No, I love that. It’s one of those things that’s simple but not easy, that’s what I found, especially in the work that I’m doing with companies and firms is to help them implement this on the regular. It’s like, wow, and it’s like, well, it’s right there. If you have an idea, then bring it up. Why not? Because they probably haven’t thought about it, and that’s probably why it’s not happening.

    Tim: Like what I said about the running thing, don’t wait until the whole thing’s fully baked. Just put your shoes on and head out the door and see what happens. Course-correct. You’re like, hey, this isn’t working. Just course-correct. Do what you’ve got to do.

    John: I love that, man. That’s awesome. Well, it’s only fair, since I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, that I turn the tables and make this the first episode of the Tim Barr Podcast. I didn’t know it was happening either, but thanks for having me on. I’m all yours.

    Tim: Welcome to the Tim Barr podcast.

    John: Right. There we go.

    Tim: Office Practice Leader, big-time VP something or other.

    John: Right.

    Tim: So, John, what would you do on Mars for fun?

    John: On Mars, I would probably, I don’t know, there’s a big part of me that would like to take the rocks and spell out some random words so then people that are looking at it through a telescope, what it says. Not know that I had done that. I don’t know, the junior high boy in me is very strong. There would be some sort of practical joke or something. I don’t know.

    Tim: Like, help me, or something like that.

    John: Yeah. Help me. SOS. What? How did that happen?

    Tim: All right, Back to the Future or Indiana Jones.

    John: Oh, wow. That’s good. I think I’m going to go Back to the Future on that. Just Michael J. Fox is, I don’t know, he’s just so good.

    Tim: Absolutely.

    John: I also worked a fair amount in comedy with Tom Wilson, who was Biff, super nice, super cool guy, absolutely hilarious.

    Tim: Did you make him walk to your car?

    John: No, no. Actually, he has a whole song when he gets on stage. He wrote this song. He plays the guitar as well. All the questions he gets about being in Back to the Future, like what this person’s like. The chorus is, I don’t know. It’s just a movie. He’s like, they’re not real. He’s great.

    Tim: Maybe along the same vein then, if you had a time machine, what time would you go visit?

    John: Oh, a time machine. Wow. That’s a great question. I don’t know. Maybe Ancient Egypt so I can tell everybody how they built the pyramids. I can come back and be like, it wasn’t aliens, you weirdos. It was whatever. Maybe that. Plus, it’s a cool time. I mean, it was simpler times.

    Tim: Maybe. Yeah. Cool, I like it.

    John: Yeah, maybe that. I feel like a Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure all of a sudden, where it’s just.

    Tim: If you had a time machine

    John: Right, right. Exactly, exactly. No, that was really good, man. I’m going to be chewing on that for a while. Yeah, who knows? There are so many different good times.

    Tim: Don’t forget to wind your watch.

    John: Right. Exactly. Oh, man, what a great movie. Well, this has been so much fun, Tim. Thank you so much, number one, for reading the book, but also for being a part of this. It’s really cool to just shatter the stereotype, and you’re a perfect example for that. Thanks for jumping on.

    Tim: Cool, man. Thanks for having me on. It was a lot of fun.

    John: Absolutely. Everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Tim in action or connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links and pictures are there. While you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to check out the book.

    Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.


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