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John Tyreman [00:00:05]:
My name is John Tyerman, and when I’m not rocking out on the drums, I’m listening to What’s Your “And”? with John Garrett.

John Garrett [00:00:11]:
Welcome to episode 637 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And.” Those things above and beyond your technical skills are things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.WhatsYourAnd.com.

John Garrett [00:00:51]:
The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those. And more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. If you want me to read it to you, that’s right. This voice reading the book. Look for What’s Your Hand on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes.

John Garrett [00:01:18]:
I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, John Tyreman. He’s the founder at Red Cedar Marketing and a co-host of the Breaking Biz Dev podcast. And now he’s with me here today. John, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your Hand.

John Tyreman [00:01:34]:
John, I’m excited to be here. We had a great conversation the other day. You were a guest on my show. Now I’m a guest on your show. So, yeah, excited to continue the conversation.

John Garrett [00:01:43]:
Exactly. And we probably just coulda used your audio for this podcast also, but why not record a new one? Right?

John Tyreman [00:01:50]:
I love having podcast conversations. It’s fun.

John Garrett [00:01:52]:
Oh, absolutely. It’s totally different. We flipped the rules, so this is gonna be great. This is gonna be awesome. So I start with rapid fire questions as you know, and I got to be in the hot seat for yours, so that was fun. We’ll start with this probably an easy one. Favorite color?

John Tyreman [00:02:05]:
Green.

John Garrett [00:02:06]:
Green. Yeah. How about a least favorite color?

John Tyreman [00:02:09]:
Let’s go with yellow.

John Garrett [00:02:11]:
Yellow? Okay. A little too bright. A little too sunny.

John Tyreman [00:02:14]:
I suppose.

John Garrett [00:02:15]:
Yeah. Or something. How about a first concert?

John Tyreman [00:02:18]:
Rush.

John Garrett [00:02:19]:
Rush. Okay. There you go. That’s pretty. That’ll get you hooked. How about oceans or mountains?

John Tyreman [00:02:25]:
Oceans for sure.

John Garrett [00:02:27]:
Yeah. There you go. Puzzles, Sudoku, crossword, jigsaw puzzle, Wordle. I don’t know, whatever the latest ones are.

John Tyreman [00:02:33]:
Jigsaw puzzles. I’m a big jigsaw puzzle kite. Do that with my kids all the time.

John Garrett [00:02:37]:
Oh, nice. Okay. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

John Tyreman [00:02:41]:
I don’t really have a favorite actor or actress.

John Garrett [00:02:44]:
That’s probably the right answer. That’s actually like, that’s probably the best answer. I’ll take it. How about this important one, toilet paper roll go over or under?

John Tyreman [00:02:53]:
Well, I saw the patent, and the patent shows the roll going over. So I’m gonna go with over.

John Garrett [00:02:57]:
That is the right answer. Also, you’re 2 for 2 in a row now. How about oh, this is a fun one. Star Wars or Star Trek?

John Tyreman [00:03:04]:
Star Wars,

John Garrett [00:03:05]:
for sure. Star Wars. Yeah. I’m saying yeah. Yeah. Your computer, more PC or Mac?

John Tyreman [00:03:10]:
I was always a PC guy growing up, and then when I got into the agency world, it was Macs from then and on.

John Garrett [00:03:15]:
Oh, okay. And you switched over? I didn’t know that was possible? Impressive. Okay. Alright. How about a favorite day of the week?

John Tyreman [00:03:22]:
Favorite day of the week? I’m gonna go Wednesday, hump day.

John Garrett [00:03:26]:
It’s just halfway halfway?

John Tyreman [00:03:28]:
Yeah. Getting work done. I’m all about chopping wood.

John Garrett [00:03:30]:
Oh, okay. Okay. There you go. There you go. I like it. Alright. More pens or pencils?

John Tyreman [00:03:36]:
I like pencils. You gotta be able to erase.

John Garrett [00:03:39]:
Okay. Alright. Yeah. How about ice cream? I’m a huge ice cream junkie. You go in a cup or in a cone?

John Tyreman [00:03:44]:
I’m gonna go in a cup and eat it with a spoon. It’s a little bit more neat and tidy, especially on these hot summer days.

John Garrett [00:03:51]:
Totally. Yeah. Then you don’t miss any. Totally. How about are you more early bird or night owl?

John Tyreman [00:03:56]:
Oh, gosh. Some I’ve been burning the candle at both ends, so can I go both?

John Garrett [00:04:01]:
Both is not the right answer, but I’ll take it. Like, that’s that’s funny. Oh, since you have the marketing background, we’re gonna go, digital or print on the marketing?

John Tyreman [00:04:11]:
As someone who spends way too much time in digital marketing, I’m gonna go print.

John Garrett [00:04:15]:
Oh, okay. Alright. A little old school? Yeah. It stands out now. That’s for sure.

John Tyreman [00:04:19]:
Exactly.

John Garrett [00:04:20]:
Yeah. How about a favorite number?

John Tyreman [00:04:23]:
We’ll go with 4.

John Garrett [00:04:24]:
Yeah. Is there a reason?

John Tyreman [00:04:25]:
No. It’s well, actually, funny. You asked me my favorite color, and that was standing out my head when I was a kid. I remember assigning colors to numbers, and green was 4. So let’s go 4.

John Garrett [00:04:34]:
Oh, okay. Alright. That’s that makes total sense, actually. And there’s no reason to change it. We got 2 more. A least favorite vegetable. Brussels sprouts. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:04:44]:
That’s definitely I don’t even know why they’re there. Like, just grow up and be a full cabbage. Yeah. Then why’d you stop? Like, why’d you stop? And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

John Tyreman [00:04:56]:
Outside of my kids and my you know, all of that, let’s go with my drum set. You know? Yeah. I’ve been here for years.

John Garrett [00:05:02]:
And what kind of drum set is it?

John Tyreman [00:05:04]:
It’s a Pearl export series. It was actually my mom’s, and then I kind of took it over when I was around 10 years old. So

John Garrett [00:05:11]:
I started doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you’ve had it for a long time.

John Tyreman [00:05:16]:
Yeah. For as long as I’ve I can remember.

John Garrett [00:05:18]:
That’s awesome, which goes naturally into drumming and, like, how’d you get started? And, apparently, you just took your mom’s, and then there it is. But how did you wanna get into drums? Like, there’s a story here that it sounds awesome.

John Tyreman [00:05:30]:
Yeah. So my mom had that drum set. She was banging around, and I didn’t think any and, you know, hardly anything of it. But around when I was, like, 9 or 10 years old, I lived out in the country, and we lived on this dirt road. There were no other kids around. It’s just me and my 2 younger brothers. A couple of other kids moved in next door, and one of them played guitar. And I’m like, oh, man.

John Tyreman [00:05:49]:
We should start a band. Right?

John Garrett [00:05:50]:
You know? 10 years old. So I was like,

John Tyreman [00:05:52]:
my mom’s got a drum set. We could set it all up, and so that’s how it started.

John Garrett [00:05:56]:
That’s amazing. So your mom played drums or kinda toyed around on it?

John Tyreman [00:06:00]:
Yeah. She played for a bit. She took lessons for a bit and then just kinda stopped, and it was just kinda sitting there. So I figured, you know, why not?

John Garrett [00:06:08]:
I love it, man. That’s so great. And so did you, like, do band in school and and things like that, or were you more just outside at school?

John Tyreman [00:06:15]:
No. I was in sports in school. So I was playing basketball and soccer, you know, at that time, and then, eventually, you know, football and and stuff like that. I just loved drums, and I loved jamming on the drums, and we would write music, and we would play covers, and it was fun. And then, you know, later on in life, that kinda led to, like, a a great networking tool so where I could, like, meet people and play music together. And it was, like, this language that we spoke, and then it was a way to, like, meet new friends and things like that. So

John Garrett [00:06:45]:
That’s awesome. So, I mean, you still play today. I mean, now, I mean, I that’s how we connected was on LinkedIn. You had a post of coming across my podcast and then a picture of you after a gig or in the middle of a gig. I don’t know. And that’s awesome. And so where do you meet these other musicians?

John Tyreman [00:07:00]:
So, I mean, I’ve been in various rock bands, high school, my teens and twenties, and that’s just kinda how it is. You know, people are always jamming and playing music, and they’re like, hey. You know, you wanna come jam with us? We need someone to play drums, and, you know, that’s how it kinda went. Side note, that’s how I got into podcasting because I loved recording audio and recording music and everything.

John Garrett [00:07:19]:
Oh, yeah.

John Tyreman [00:07:20]:
But, you know, I had kids a little early around 25 and took a break for a while. And then I think it was last year, I went out to our hometown has this thing where they shut down Main Street every Friday, and then they have, like, bands come out and play. So I was in town, and my friend was at a bar. And he was like, hey, John. Haven’t seen you in a while. My drummer just kinda he can’t make the gig tomorrow. Are you able to fill in? And I’m like, yeah, man. Sure.

John Tyreman [00:07:46]:
You know, would love to.

John Garrett [00:07:47]:
I gotta go find my drums. Hold on.

John Tyreman [00:07:48]:
You’re right.

John Garrett [00:07:49]:
Like, you know, it’s been a while.

John Tyreman [00:07:50]:
Pull those out of the closet. Right? And it it was a smashing success. It was great. It was just, you know, shaking off the rust a little bit, but it was a fun time. So from there on, he was like, hey. How would you like to play, you know, gigs with us? I’m like, yeah. That sounds awesome, man.

John Garrett [00:08:06]:
So That’s so cool. Yeah.

John Tyreman [00:08:07]:
I got back into it that way.

John Garrett [00:08:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so do you feel like the drum playing, John, is different than when you were you know, I mean, obviously, life happens when you put the drums in the closet or put them away. Is there a difference now?

John Tyreman [00:08:22]:
You know, I’ve been playing drums for so long. It’s just natural. It’s like, you know, riding a bike, I guess. And so I’m very rhythmically, you know, oriented, I guess you could say. You know, I love numbers and analytics, and drums kinda fit into that. Right? Because it’s very mathematical and geometric in terms of, like, when the notes hit and you’re using 4 different limbs, so you have to have, like, spatial awareness too. And so, like, it’s fun because I I like to be able to kinda push the limits, and there’s no, like, mastering of the drums. Right? I mentioned you asked me what my first concert was and

John Garrett [00:08:57]:
That drummer’s pretty legendary. So, like, you know, like, that’s

John Tyreman [00:09:01]:
I was able to see Neil Peart in his prime back in, like, it was, like, 2001 on their Vapor Trails tour. And, like, with their opening song, he comes out with, like, a drum solo, and it was really cool. But he was an inspiration to me, and so I was, like, watching him, and I had a couple DVDs about, like, you know, his approach to drumming. And his whole, like, philosophy is what kinda got me into it and how, you know, it’s not linear. It’s, you know, think about it in terms of, like, circular instead of reading from left to right as people normally would in music sheets. He taught me to, like, look at it in a different way, and so that helped me understand, like, odd time signatures and things like that. And then that, I was able to, like, play with my brother who plays bass. And so he and I would be able to, like, go down and we would jam all the time.

John Tyreman [00:09:46]:
And then when our neighbor would come over, we would jam with him and, like, you know, push each other and stuff like that. It was a really cool way to just be creative, and so today, we play a lot of cover songs in this new band that I’m in, but we want to get back into writing original music, which is what we we all really like to do.

John Garrett [00:10:04]:
Sure. Yeah. That’s so great. And do you have some shows that come to mind that were some of your favorites from performing?

John Tyreman [00:10:12]:
There was one band that I was in, and we were fortunate enough to open for the Pie Tasters. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Pie Tasters.

John Garrett [00:10:19]:
Heard of them, but, I need to look them up.

John Tyreman [00:10:21]:
They’re a ska band.

John Garrett [00:10:23]:
Oh, okay.

John Tyreman [00:10:24]:
Yeah. And, they were popular in the late nineties, like, regionally around, like, the East Coast.

John Garrett [00:10:30]:
Got it.

John Tyreman [00:10:31]:
That was pretty cool, like, in terms of, like, being able to open. There were some, like, up and coming god. What I guess, what would you call it? Like, not glam rock, but, like, you know, like the emo rock

John Garrett [00:10:43]:
Oh, okay. Sure.

John Tyreman [00:10:43]:
Back in the day, like, you know, like, all time low. I shared a stage on an like, a separate stage, and they were playing on the main stage in one kinda, like, festival that I was playing at. Yeah. Yeah. So those are some fun memories.

John Garrett [00:10:55]:
Those are pretty awesome. I mean, like, I I remember, like, you know, Real Big Fish and Mighty Mighty Bosstones and stuff like that. So, I mean, I definitely know the ska world a little bit, you know, but that’s cool, though. I mean, you know, to be able to be on stage and be I mean, there was a 10 year old you that was in the audience just the same way that you were for Rush, you know, and who knows who you inspired to go on and, you know, play the drums or be in music or whatever. So that’s cool, you know, just to think about that in a roundabout way. Was there ever, like, pressure or, like, oh my gosh. Or but you work your way up. Right? I mean, you don’t go from, like, your parents’ basement to opening for pie tasters, you know, type of thing.

John Garrett [00:11:34]:
There’s a couple gigs in between.

John Tyreman [00:11:36]:
Oh, yeah. Totally. And, you know, and I, you know, I always get a little nerves before going on or, you know, I used to. I I actually kinda relish it now. It’s really fun getting up on stage. But, yeah, as a kid, I think, like, one of my first gigs was I was in 8th grade, and it was at the school that I was going to. We put on this, like, end of year show, I I suppose. Like, the music teacher was involved, and she asked if anyone played drums.

John Tyreman [00:11:59]:
I said yes, and she said, okay. Well, we’re gonna play Wipeout. And I don’t know if you I don’t know if you know Wipeout. There’s, like, this. I subscribed to the Rolling Stone, and there was a cartoon in the Rolling Stone that said, like, welcome to drummer’s hell. And it was, like, this guy playing drums and this drum instructor saying play Wipeout. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:12:19]:
That’s crazy.

John Tyreman [00:12:20]:
Get on stage, and this is how I learned about the importance of a drum rug. I get on stage, and I’m playing, you know, and, like, the drums just slowly start to, like, go away from me. And, like, as I’m playing it, I gotta, like, grab my toms and my kick drum and, like, pull them back as I’m playing. And then I, like, lose a stick and have to, like, grab another one. So it’s like a hot mess on stage. But then afterwards, it’s like, oh, man. Great job. Great show.

John Tyreman [00:12:46]:
And I’m like, are you kidding me? Like, I was struggle bus up there. That was, like, kinda, like, thrown into the fire, I guess.

John Garrett [00:12:53]:
No. That’s awesome, man. I I love it. You know? And then you just keep going, and that that’s a part of you that needs to be fed. You know? Like, you could put the drums aside, but it’s gonna come back. It’s gonna come back knocking. Like, hey. Remember me? Yeah.

John Garrett [00:13:06]:
You can’t put it away.

John Tyreman [00:13:08]:
It’s incredible. And it’s funny because, you know, for the past, like, 7 or 8 years, I think my oldest is he’s 8 now. You know, my wife and I were busy raising small children. Right? And that is hard work. Right? There’s not a lot of time for daddy to go out and play shows. Right? And so recently, we were my wife and I were talking and and we’re like, we need to, like, have something for ourselves. Right? And, you know, that was, like, a year ago, and then, of course, you know, I meet my friend in town. He’s like, hey.

John Tyreman [00:13:38]:
We need a drummer. It just fills my cup. Right? You know? It, like, brings me energy to do that. And what’s the best part is I get paid to go out, have a couple beers, and play drums.

John Garrett [00:13:50]:
Totally. Like, I would pay money to do this. Wait. You can’t pay me? That’s nuts. But it it it’s just making time for it. And, sure, life happens, and I get it. You know? And if you wanna be a good parent I mean, it’s easy to raise kids if you wanna be terrible at it. But if you wanna be good at it, then, yeah, it it’s hard, and it takes a lot of time and energy and effort.

John Garrett [00:14:09]:
There’s so many people I’ve talked to. When I wrote the book, it’s more for professionals, but there are stay at home parents that have read the book. And when their children go away to college, they’re like, I don’t know who I am anymore. It’s amazing how much, you know, this who else are you message really resonates and and permeates everyone.

John Tyreman [00:14:29]:
Yeah. And it’s like the those are the common threads that we have throughout these different chapters in life. Right? And it’s like you said, like, the stay at home mom. You know? That’s just one chapter. Like, it’s it feels like you’re in it. You’re in the trenches when you’re in it, but, you know, that’s not forever.

John Garrett [00:14:45]:
Yeah. Exactly.

John Tyreman [00:14:46]:
So, yeah, I love what you’re doing, John. It’s this is a really cool concept you put together.

John Garrett [00:14:50]:
Well, no. I I appreciate it, man. And it but I I mean, I feel like it’s our message. You know? Like, it’s not mine. It’s ours. I mean, you know, every single person that’s listening to this at some point deep in your soul, it resonates. And, you know, this is a an earworm that you can’t unhear. You know, it’s gonna it’s gonna come knocking.

John Garrett [00:15:07]:
And there are things from when you were younger or, you know, that you thought you put on a shelf and, oh, I’ll come back and get it later, but it goes dormant and then it goes extinct, and then you forget who you really are. You’ve abandoned part of yourself for the sake of what you think you’re supposed to do, but that abandoned part is gonna it needs to be there. It just makes you better at your job. Do you feel like the drumming at all translates to your marketing side of or even the podcasting side of of the world?

John Tyreman [00:15:35]:
Kind of like an indirect sense. I mentioned that, you know, growing up and recording music, that’s kinda what got me into marketing first because, you know, I had to promote the shows. Right? You know, we booked these shows, and a lot of times, we would have to, like, lay out the cash up front to, like, secure the event. We’re like, okay. We need to make our money back. Right? Yeah. So we gotta go sell tickets. We gotta go promote, and so that’s kinda what got me into marketing.

John Tyreman [00:15:57]:
And then the recording aspect of it is what got it got me into podcasting, and I launched a couple podcasts for a few agencies that I worked for before I went out on my own. And then, yeah, it just kinda naturally ties back in because, you know, audio recording, engineering, I’m living in, you know, not just Descript, but, like, Garage Band too. You know? And I’m familiar with those platforms, and it’s just those skills kinda naturally translated to what I’m doing today.

John Garrett [00:16:22]:
Yeah. And, I mean, and and being a drummer, I mean, you’re the heartbeat of the band. And, you know, there’s the music, but then there’s the solos. You know? And then you could get creative, and let’s add a little hi hat here. Let’s add a little, you know, whatever here. You know? I mean, yeah, it’s a cover song, but I can do my little flavor of it, you know, and get a little creative. And that’s same with marketing. Like, if you’re so far out there, then people are like, woah, I don’t even know.

John Garrett [00:16:44]:
But, you know, my own little flavor, my own little, you know, special sauce type of thing, and that’s a muscle that you’ve been exercising since you were 10, you know, type of thing. And so it’s cool to be able to know that manifests itself in other ways. And that’s awesome. And I guess how much did you share the drumming with coworkers or clients in the past?

John Tyreman [00:17:06]:
It’s funny. It was, like, my first week at a new agency back in 2020, and I was on an introductory call with one of our clients. And in the background, I had my drum set. Right? So, like, on video, you know, I’m at work, but in the background, you could see my drum set. And this was a client that had been a client for years, you know, 5 5 years since I got there, and the owner of the company said, is that a drum set? You know, I used to play drums in the World Fair, and that was something that, like, none of the account teams knew about this long standing client. But because he saw the drums in the background, he was he he shared that, and then we were able to have a conversation around that. And that was, like, a new, you know, information about the client, but it helped us connect on a deeper level with that client. So that was kinda cool.

John Garrett [00:17:58]:
That’s amazing. I mean, that that’s the thing. Like, when I submitted my book manuscript, the pre pandemic, like, beginning of 2020, then everything shuts down. And I thought, oh my gosh. Like, this is gonna be out of date before it even publishes. And then what happened is it became even more important. You know, we’ve been in each other’s homes. We saw the artwork or the drum set or the cats or dogs or kids or whatever and it’s like, you know, that’s this is me.

John Garrett [00:18:25]:
Like, these are things that light me up. And then better things happened. You know, you have a best friend now. I mean, drummers are like that. I mean, they’re a little bit off. So, like, you know, you find another drummer. It’s not like, you know, it’s like finding another person from, you know, New Mexico. It’s like, what? Like, that’s amazing.

John Garrett [00:18:41]:
Like, there’s not a lot of them. And so, you know, like, that’s so cool to hear that, you know, it’s like, is that a drum set? And it’s like, well, obviously, you can’t mess that up. I mean, I can’t I think pretty sure everybody can know what a drum set is. But, you know, you create that conversation and that connection, and it’s amazing to hear, like, for years, no one’s known that about, you know, the CEO of the client. And just like that, it’s you know, the can opener is there. That’s awesome, man. And so, like, did people know that about you before? Or once COVID happened, it was like, well, it’s back there. It’s hard to move.

John Tyreman [00:19:14]:
Yeah. I think people knew that about me. I wasn’t shy about it because, you know, growing up in, you know, word-of-mouth is the greatest marketing tool. Right? So if I was playing a show, I’m telling everybody. I’m like, hey. I’m playing a show out here, and that was before we had kids, and, you know, I stopped playing music. But, yeah, I think people knew. And that’s just my personality too.

John Tyreman [00:19:33]:
I like to talk about that kind of stuff and promote and share what, you know, what else I’m doing in my life.

John Garrett [00:19:38]:
And how much do you feel like it’s on an organization to create that space for people to feel safe to be able to share? Or how much is it on the individual to be like, hey. This is what I’m doing?

John Tyreman [00:19:48]:
I think it’s both because it’s a two way street. Right? And it’s important to be vulnerable, and it’s important to be yourself because that’s how you forge those, a deeper connection with your coworkers, with your manager. But, you know, at the other side of the coin, it is important for an organization to make room for that. Right? Because if you don’t and it’s all work all the time, you don’t give your team an opportunity to forge those deeper connections. And that’s what unlocks great work is when you trust your teammates and you understand them on a personal level. It’s like the same thing, you know, on any team. You know? I’m a big fan of football and, like like, the coaches, they all talk about getting together after practice, you know, going to each other’s family cookouts and things like that. And there’s a reason for that.

John Tyreman [00:20:37]:
Right?

John Garrett [00:20:38]:
No. Absolutely. And I and I love how you said that. I mean, you know, like, that’s what unlocks another level of work and work product. Even though it has nothing to do with work, it unlocks better work, and it matters so much. I mean, they’re still human beings that we’re working with. The AI and the computers and all that, those are tools, but they’re still humans using the tools. And so it’s needing to create that deeper level of trust, like you said.

John Tyreman [00:21:03]:
Well, if you’re operating with your defenses up, then you’re not devoting all of your best energy to what you’re trying to produce. Right? Yeah. And so if you’re able to lower those defenses and kinda let go and relax a little bit, you’re able to devote more energy to the task at hand. That’s how I see it.

John Garrett [00:21:22]:
That’s exactly it. It’s not having to worry about who did I tell or who’s gonna judge me or who’s gonna whatever and you know, provided it’s not illegal or, like, super taboo. You know, your and is is cool and people care about it, you know, type of thing. And do you have any words of encouragement to people listening that maybe they play the drums or they have an and that they feel like it has nothing to do with my job, so no one cares?

John Tyreman [00:21:45]:
Yeah. I would say that you’d be surprised, you know, what people don’t tell you. And, you know, it it just takes, you know, one person sharing their and to spark a conversation and to learn something new about someone that you’ve known for maybe a long, you know, a long time. So if I was to offer any words of encouragement, it would be to share your and so that you can start that snowball effect, and you’ll learn something new about your team.

John Garrett [00:22:11]:
No. I love it, man. That’s so great. And, I mean, this has been awesome, John. Thank you so much for being a part of this. I do feel like though that it’s only fair that I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning. So we turn the tables, and we’ll make it a full on it’s just John Tyreman podcast. It’s just you.

John Garrett [00:22:28]:
There’s no co host. There’s no topics. It’s just whatever you wanna talk about and I appreciate you having me on. I’m in the hot seat now, so whatever you’d like to ask. You already rapid fired me during yours, so maybe some new ones, which makes me extra nervous because those were some good ones when I was on your show. So I’m all yours. What do you got?

John Tyreman [00:22:45]:
Well, John, I wanna dig into your comedy background because that’s something that’s really intriguing to me. How did you get started with that?

John Garrett [00:22:53]:
Sure. And when you say dig in, that makes me nervous, especially because it’s like, oh, boy.

John Tyreman [00:22:57]:
Because I wanna learn more about it. That’s something that I’m thinking of doing too.

John Garrett [00:23:02]:
Oh, okay. So I started when I started at PwC back in the day, we had a training in Los Angeles. It was a couple of weeks. And so on Thursday, we would go down to the improv in Hollywood, and whose line is it anyway was a big show at the time. They would film in studio and then they would come to the improv on Thursday nights and do sort of a 45 minute uncensored in the middle of stand-ups. I mean, it’s like a 3-hour show. And so you would go and watch some stand-up comedians. And at the time, Premium Blend was huge on Comedy Central, so there were some of those comedians, some comedians I had never heard of, Who’s Line in the Middle.

John Garrett [00:23:38]:
And then after, you could hang out and talk to, you know, Drew Carey or, you know, Brad Sherwood or, you know, just it was just crazy. I mean, for me, you know, coming from the Midwest, it was, like, this is nuts. And so yeah. So Vince Morris, super funny guy. He was part of the show, and I I had seen him on premium blend. And and so I was, like, hey, like, how do you get started? You know, he’s, like, well, what do you do now? And I said, well, I’m an associate at PricewaterhouseCoopers, you know, big 4 accounting consulting. And he’s like, well, I guess you gotta do something. You know, as if I was, you know, slinging pizzas or whatever.

John Garrett [00:24:07]:
You know, like and and so he’s like, just go up on stage, record the audio, and listen, tweak, and go back up and do it again. And so I went up at the Funny Bone in Saint Louis where I lived at the time, and it was February of 2000. And, yeah, went up on stage at the open mic there. I went the week before to watch and was like, okay, I’m not going to be the worst person that’s ever done comedy, so we’ll be okay. And then went up and, you know, I wasn’t necessarily nervous because they’re going to say my name. I signed up. I guess the nervous should be when you sign up. That’s when you should be nervous.

John Garrett [00:24:43]:
But they’re going to say your name, and you’re going to look really stupid if you don’t go up. So just go up there and do it. I mean, you have more guts than anybody else I know, you know, so give it a stab. And the thing that’s a shame is we don’t see the very first time Chappelle was on stage. We don’t see the very first time Bill Burr was on stage. We don’t see the very first time Nate Margotze was on stage or whoever your favorite comedian is, Brian Regan, whatever, because they don’t exist. You know, those recordings don’t exist. And so we’re comparing ourselves to legends.

John Garrett [00:25:17]:
And it’s like, well, they’ve done a few 1,000 shows. So, you know, it’s as long as you it brings you joy, and that’s what all what’s your hand is about is as long as it brings you joy, it doesn’t matter. You know, are you good at it? Are you making money at it? None of it matters. I enjoy doing it. That’s all that really matters. Now, I mean, in comedy the only way you find out is going on stage. Like, you know, in music you could tell pretty easily whether or not you’re good. You know, like, alright, we’re probably not good yet.

John Garrett [00:25:46]:
But in comedy, you don’t know till you get out in front of the audience.

John Tyreman [00:25:49]:
That’s direct feedback. Right?

John Garrett [00:25:51]:
1000% direct feedback. And there’s been plenty of times where I’ve been like, oh, I guess that was just me that thought that one was funny. Okay. But there’s still a nugget there, and it’s I need to just get into it. It’s a puzzle for me, you know, of how to paint a picture for strangers that I have in my head. I need you to paint the same picture as fast as possible and only the important parts and then I connect the dots for you. Or you I get you close enough to for you to connect the dots and then laughter.

John Tyreman [00:26:20]:
Did you take any classes before you you went on stage or this is just you just went for it?

John Garrett [00:26:25]:
I did some comedy sports, which is short form improv. I did some of those workshops and I’ve done some of those. But for stand up, I really don’t think that there’s there are classes, but I don’t think that they help. I think that watching comedians, now it’s great because there’s Netflix and YouTube and all the things that you can watch as unlimited. Those didn’t exist before, but just watching comedians, learning, studying, and then making sure that you make it your own. And that’s the thing with comedy is you either write it or you don’t say it. It’s black and white. There’s no you know, somebody has a joke about a Chevy truck and, well, I made it a Ford truck so it’s no, no, that’s stealing.

John Garrett [00:27:08]:
That’s stealing is what that is. And there’s no cover jokes. You know? There’s no none of that. You know? So you have to do your own thing. And that’s what makes it even harder is that. And so it’s learning from others, but then doing your own thing. Comedians will call you out on that in a heartbeat, and they should because, I mean, it’s stealing. And, I mean, there’s been times in the speaking world where there’s a lot of borrowing that happens in that space.

John Garrett [00:27:36]:
And I’ve seen, you know, the head of HR for a company go up and do a whole hour on a book that she read. And I’ll be like, was that is the author sick today or, like, why isn’t the author here? You know? And she’s like, no. I just really like the book. I go, well, you know, it’s kinda I mean, you know, like, you could invite the author to come and actually do a real like, as opposed to a watered down bastardized version that you just did. You could actually have the real person come in and, you know, bring some heat, but alright. Whatever. You know? Like, I’m the only one who thinks that way because I come from comedy. You know? Did I answer your question in the longest answer possible?

John Tyreman [00:28:13]:
Yeah. I guess so. You did. That was it’s inspiring for me because it’s it reinforces kind of what I’ve always said is, you know, if you want something, just go for it. So I just I need to find opportunities to I love the way you said that, you know, study the comedians and study the way that they deliver, you know, the little tactical pieces and how they structure, you know, jokes that they come back to, you know, later on in the performance and things like that.

John Garrett [00:28:34]:
There’s a science to it for sure. There are words that are funnier than other words. There’s a rhythm to it. There’s the amount of syllables that all of that. Some of it you learn over time. Some of it you just innately know. But, yeah, there’s definitely a reason why things work in the amount of pause, the amount of whatever. Some jokes work right out of the gate, and some jokes, there’s no way they work right out of the gate.

John Garrett [00:28:56]:
But after I get to know you, about halfway in the middle of the set, yeah, that joke works now.

John Tyreman [00:29:00]:
Yeah. Because you gotta build rapport and trust with your audience and warm them up a little bit.

John Garrett [00:29:04]:
Totally. Yeah. I mean, they don’t know you. You know? Like, they gotta get to know you and feel comfortable and and whatever. And then once you get them, though, man, then we’re on a rocket ship. Like, we can go wherever we want. So, yeah, that’s awesome, man. Well, I would say for you, I would just weave some do some comedy in the middle of in between some songs.

John Garrett [00:29:23]:
I mean, you know, there you go. I mean, you have a free opportunity right there to just throw out some jokes and they don’t have to kill because no one’s no one came to a concert expecting jokes. So, yeah, it’s like, hey, these were pretty funny. Yeah. Alright. And then somebody will say, hey, you should do comedy and you’ll be like, really? Like, of course, I should type of thing. But thank you so much for being a part of What’s Your Ann and for, you know, being a living example of of this whole philosophy. So thanks so much, John.

John Tyreman [00:29:50]:
John, I appreciate you having me on the show. This is this has been a blast.

John Garrett [00:29:56]:
And everybody, if you’re listening and wanna see some pictures of John on stage or connect with him on social media or the link to his Breaking Biz Dev podcast, be sure to go to www.WhatsYourAnd.com. All the links are there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button to the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to check out the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use, and for sharing this with your friends, so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.