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Matt Haney [00:00:05]:
My name is Matt Haney. When I’m not out fishing or golfing or traveling, you know I’m listening to What’s You’re “And”? with John Garrett.

John Garrett [00:00:16]:
Welcome to episode 669 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And.” Those things above and beyond your technical skills are things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond your job title. Most people are going around thinking that they are the job title and no, no, you’re so much more than that. And if you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.whatsyourand.com.

John Garrett [00:00:54]:
The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t see how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those. And more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right. This voice reading the book. Look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes.

John Garrett [00:01:20]:
I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Matt Haney. He’s a fractional COO with Sinclair Ventures out of Austin, Texas. And now he’s with me here today. Matt, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Matt Haney [00:01:35]:
John, so happy to be here. Really looking forward to chatting with you today.

John Garrett [00:01:38]:
This is gonna be a blast. I have 17 rapid fire questions. Get to know Matt right out of the gate here. So, seat belts buckled. You ready to roll?

Matt Haney [00:01:46]:
Let’s do this.

John Garrett [00:01:47]:
Here we go. I like it. How about a favorite color?

Matt Haney [00:01:50]:
Favorite color, orange.

John Garrett [00:01:52]:
Orange? Okay. Nice. A lot of Austin. I guess I should’ve seen that.

Matt Haney [00:01:55]:
Well, not even that. It’s in my brand and my my website. You’ll see. I just love orange, I think. And orange and gray, to be even more specific.

John Garrett [00:02:02]:
Oh, okay. Those are good. Those are good together. I like that. Yeah. How about a least favorite color?

Matt Haney [00:02:06]:
Least favorite color? Yeah. I don’t I mean, brown just because it’s meh. You know? I don’t know. It’s essential, but not more.

John Garrett [00:02:13]:
Answer on that one

Matt Haney [00:02:14]:
for sure. Alright. Well, there you go. I’m not unusual in that.

John Garrett [00:02:17]:
You’re not alone. That’s for sure. How about your first concert? I love going to concerts. So

Matt Haney [00:02:20]:
First concert, I remember I was telling my kids about it, was Brooks and Dunn in Wichita Falls, Texas. Their hit song was Boots, Scoot, and Boogie.

John Garrett [00:02:29]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. That’s awesome.

Matt Haney [00:02:32]:
Make you sing it, John, but I could.

John Garrett [00:02:36]:
If your hand was only singing, dang it. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Matt Haney [00:02:42]:
I was just telling a story the other day about Zach Galifianakis. I think he’s absolutely fantastic, specifically in Between Two Ferns, that podcaster show he did for a while. I think he’s just incredibly talented.

John Garrett [00:02:53]:
Yeah. He really is. So funny. So funny. How about a toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Matt Haney [00:02:58]:
Oh, over. I mean, the sickos that go underneath a special place to go to. It’s always over. It’s always over.

John Garrett [00:03:05]:
There you go. That’s hilarious. How about books? Audio version, ebook, or a real book?

Matt Haney [00:03:10]:
Man, I do love real books. The problem is I get about five chapters books in my library, you know, that I get to and but definitely hard books. Definitely hard books. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:03:22]:
I mean, when I wrote mine, I was like, look. This took two years to write. You’re gonna finish it. So mine are microchapters. So, like, you it’s like, yeah. I got another two pages, you know, and then you accidentally fix.

Matt Haney [00:03:31]:
I can handle that.

John Garrett [00:03:31]:
Yeah. There you go. See?

Matt Haney [00:03:33]:
How about Star Wars or Star Trek? Star Wars, but really not Star Wars or Star Trek. I’m more of an Indiana Jones guy.

John Garrett [00:03:41]:
Oh, okay. I’ll take that.

Matt Haney [00:03:42]:
Yeah. Raiders of the Lost Ark. No. It’s a that’s a good one.

John Garrett [00:03:45]:
That’s a really good one. That’s an excellent answer. Your computer, more PC or Mac?

Matt Haney [00:03:49]:
100% Mac. Love it. I’m all Mac’d in, and I, unfortunately, do judge people who have Android phones. I’m sorry. It’s just something I have to do. I judge people with Androids.

John Garrett [00:04:01]:
Well, that’s me. So there you

Matt Haney [00:04:03]:
go. Oh, you’ve been judged, John. You’ve been judged.

John Garrett [00:04:06]:
Just don’t text me, and you’ll never know.

Matt Haney [00:04:08]:
That’s exactly right.

John Garrett [00:04:10]:
It’s all good. I’m not cool enough to go to a Mac store to even buy it.

Matt Haney [00:04:14]:
No. I’m not smart enough to run an Android. I know that.

John Garrett [00:04:18]:
There we go. Now we’re all even. How about a favorite day of the week?

Matt Haney [00:04:21]:
You know, I used to dread Mondays, and I’ve I’ve learned to just turn them into it’s gonna happen. Let’s embrace it. Let’s do it. But Mondays are Mondays are that start of the week. Like, let’s get stuff done this week. Let’s make sure we’re intentional about it. So I don’t love them, but I’ve learned to love them. So I guess I gotta say Mondays, I’m working hard to love the most.

John Garrett [00:04:40]:
Yeah. It sets the tone. I like that.

Matt Haney [00:04:42]:
That’s right.

John Garrett [00:04:42]:
That’s good. Alright. How about more oceans or mountains?

Matt Haney [00:04:45]:
Mountains. You’re gonna learn. I’m a fisherman. I love the mountains. So mountains and but my wife’s ocean. Grew up in Southern California, so we’re we spend a lot of time in both.

John Garrett [00:04:55]:
There you go. How about ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Matt Haney [00:04:58]:
I mean, if it’s a homemade waffle cone, then that’s it. There’s nothing better than walking past an ice cream store and smelling that homemade waffle cone, and you’re like, just mainline that straight into my veins. I will take the homemade waffle cone any day.

John Garrett [00:05:13]:
I don’t even care what kind of ice cream to

Matt Haney [00:05:14]:
eat. No. Just I don’t care.

John Garrett [00:05:16]:
Just give me the cone

Matt Haney [00:05:17]:
and let me smell it.

John Garrett [00:05:18]:
Yeah. There was a place I was in Houston, and they had waffle bowls that they made right there. Like, it was on the thing.

Matt Haney [00:05:26]:
And they press it out, and you just smell it, and you’re like, oh, that is so good.

John Garrett [00:05:30]:
It was really good. How about a favorite animated character? Could be Disney or anything.

Matt Haney [00:05:35]:
Let’s see. I think I I used to I grew up on the Simpsons, and I think the Simpsons has come back even more like, where they were then, we didn’t know how far out there they were until now. And you look back and you’re like, oh, wow. The Simpsons was telling. And I do think you go back to the Simpsons and you see some things that they predicted back then that are happening now around phones and all the different things, and it’s like, that’s some pretty cool stuff. So I’m a Simpsons guy.

John Garrett [00:05:58]:
Simpsons is hilarious. Awesome. Yeah. Absolutely. How about, I don’t know. I think you got this in your blood. Balance sheet or income statement?

Matt Haney [00:06:06]:
Oh, man. That’s a good one. That I’ve never been asked that. That’s fascinating.

John Garrett [00:06:11]:
Or cash flow?

Matt Haney [00:06:13]:
I think it’s p and l balance sheet. I see the value in both. That’s so funny. I’ve never been asked that, and I’m really I never lost for words, but I’ve learned to see the value value of both of them. And now it’s like, I don’t know that I can see one without the other. Because for so long, I was P and L based and didn’t care about the balance sheet. It was all about EBITDA. It was all about cash flow.

Matt Haney [00:06:32]:
And now I’m like, man, but you gotta look at it holistically with the other.

John Garrett [00:06:35]:
That’s there’s some bodies hiding in that balance sheet. That’s for sure.

Matt Haney [00:06:38]:
The left hand and the right. You have to have them both.

John Garrett [00:06:40]:
Okay. Full trial balance. Here you go. You figured it out. I like that. Okay. We got three more. Do you have a favorite number?

Matt Haney [00:06:47]:
I don’t necessarily have a favorite number. I will say my my kids love numbers. They love their birthday. My son will have his number be, you know, two because he’s the second kid. And and his mom’s birthday is on the twenty second, so he likes twos. But I’ve never really, like, had a huge number. So colors, yes. And, like, I’m obsessed with my initials.

Matt Haney [00:07:08]:
I doodle them everywhere. They’re on all sorts of things, but no real favorite number per se.

John Garrett [00:07:13]:
Okay. No. I’ll take that. What’s a typical breakfast?

Matt Haney [00:07:16]:
Typical breakfast, you’re gonna love this, John. Every single day, I have a smoothie in the morning. It is two scoops of protein powder, 10 ounces of water, a banana, frozen or not, depending upon and one large scoop of peanut butter. And I do that Monday through Friday because I I I get done with my workout. I have it. It’s my ritual. And, you know, on the weekends, sometimes I’ll make pancakes and stuff for the kids. But Monday through Friday, it’s the same thing for a reason.

Matt Haney [00:07:39]:
Gotta be consistent. Gotta start the same way.

John Garrett [00:07:41]:
And you don’t have to think about it.

Matt Haney [00:07:42]:
Here it is. I don’t. It’s zero. And I I think all day and talk all day. I don’t wanna have to think or talk when I’m making breakfast.

John Garrett [00:07:47]:
No. I love it. That’s great. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Matt Haney [00:07:52]:
Man, that’s a good one. I know people get stumped on this one. Well, I’m gonna be I’m gonna be atypical here. I think the favorite thing I have is a wonderful marriage and three great kids. And we’ve all put that in perspective a lot in the last several years or weeks or months with a lot of things going on in the world. And I think all the other stuff is stuff, but to have a marriage of eighteen years and three awesome kids is my favorite thing to have. All the other stuff is just stuff.

John Garrett [00:08:17]:
Yeah. That’s fantastic. I love it. Well, let’s get into golf travel and fishing.

Matt Haney [00:08:22]:
I feel like they could just

John Garrett [00:08:23]:
could all be just one thing.

Matt Haney [00:08:24]:
Sometimes it does all one.

John Garrett [00:08:25]:
There you go. But let’s talk golf first, I think. How’d you get started?

Matt Haney [00:08:29]:
When I was a kid, I was probably 10 or 11. I wanted to pick a sport that nobody in my family knew how to do because, therefore, I wouldn’t have anybody in my family telling me how to do it. So when you pick a sport that no one knows, you’re automatically the best at it because no one else knows it. So baseball didn’t stick. Soccer didn’t stick. And when I was, like, 10 or 11, I I picked up a set of golf clubs and and quickly realized that I could just get dropped off at the local public golf course by my parents. I’d meet some friends that were my age. All of a sudden, we’d start playing golf way before cell phones, way before distractions, and you just get out there.

Matt Haney [00:09:06]:
And I didn’t know anything about the game. Didn’t know the form or the structure and got into it, started playing in middle school, and started playing then in high school. And I was always, you know, in those days, we had a, b, and c players. I was always a b player, kinda middle of the road, didn’t really take it too seriously. There were always somebody better. There was always someone worse. But for me, it was my my time to get out and be in nature, which was important. I didn’t realize it at the time, but it’s important to me now.

Matt Haney [00:09:36]:
And there’s always camaraderie. Like, unless you play by yourself, which plenty of people do. But what I do is I play with people, and it gives me a chance to have conversations with folks. And it’s been one of the best investments in my life that I’ve given myself or that my parents gave me is the importance of those relationships that you meet out on the golf course.

John Garrett [00:09:56]:
No. It’s so true because, I mean, you’re out there for a couple hours. It’s like you gotta talk.

Matt Haney [00:10:01]:
It’s one of those things where you’re committed to the time, but you’re not necessarily competing against someone else. Yes. There’s games where we do compete each other, but the ultimate competition is you against, you know, nature and you against the course. And there’s no one else to blame for a shot that you hit badly because guess what? You hit it. Right? So if it doesn’t go the way you want, it’s on you to say, you know, what you should have done differently. So golf’s given me so much over the years, and, you know, I’ve got a hundred stories I can share. And and but I do think it’s one of those things that I really look forward to. And I find myself, and I’m sure you have this this this in your life too, prioritizing my life around these things that give me my purpose out of work.

Matt Haney [00:10:43]:
And golf, like, for example, I’m playing to what’s today? I’m playing on Friday with 50 guys at my local club, and we’re playing in a competition together where we’re all accumulating points toward a Ryder Cup format tournament in the fall. So here we are. We’re in in the spring, storing up points, scoring rounds so that we can have a chance to compete against each other in a Ryder Cup similar format, which is 24 guys versus 24 guys in two or three different types of formats in a two day tournament. And I’m jazzed about it, John. I’m like, I get to see my buddies. There’s gonna be some trash talk. There might be a cold cocktail or two. The weather’s gonna be 70 and sunny.

Matt Haney [00:11:23]:
Like, I just feel myself getting excited.

John Garrett [00:11:26]:
Yeah. And you don’t have to learn to love it like Mondays. You know? It’s it’s it’s it’s in you.

Matt Haney [00:11:32]:
And over the years, I’ve learned that, like, I have to prioritize that. I mean, it has to be something that’s part of my life or I’m going to first of all, I’m gonna feel guilty about doing it, and I didn’t want that to be the case. I don’t wanna feel guilty about having to do it. So I had to run towards that identity piece. I had to figure out what, you know, what made it important, and then I had to make sure everyone around me understood that. And I had to make sure that my career was around it, my lifestyle, my family, all the things because it was important to me.

John Garrett [00:12:03]:
Yeah. And I mean because I mean, so much of us are told through school and college and even once you start work that, no. Work is that thing. Work is that center. And so good for you for noticing, like, there’s something else also in the center. It doesn’t have to be just one thing. There’s something else in there, and it really matters. Because if you’re not allowed to golf, you’re not as good at your job as you could be.

John Garrett [00:12:26]:
And 100%. For, you know, fishing, travel, all these other parts of you. And what’s sad

Matt Haney [00:12:32]:
is

John Garrett [00:12:32]:
that we’re indoctrinated into this other way of thinking, and it’s such a small limiting mindset that goes nowhere. It’s a dead end. And so, you know, good for you for seeing, like, I’m a human that is a COO.

Matt Haney [00:12:47]:
Yeah. It wasn’t like, oh, overnight. Hey. I gotta, you know, I gotta cut out early on Fridays to play golf. You don’t always get that luxury. But I do think through my career, I’ve been able to impression the significance of having an outlet to all of the people I’ve been around and the leaders I’ve been with and the leaders I’m developing is let’s run towards our outside life from these four walls. You know what? As a COO, I use an operating system called EOS, entrepreneurial operating system, which is an operating framework that allows us to help run companies. Right? And part of that level 10 meeting that we have every week, which is a ninety minute meeting, it’s structured, it’s scheduled.

Matt Haney [00:13:23]:
The first five minutes of that meeting, we do a segue. And we are required per the format, and I say required with air quotes, you can’t see that, to segue into the meeting and to say something that’s personal about our life that’s that’s a win and something that’s professional about our life that’s a win. And what we learn through encouraging people to talk about their and as you say it, it comes up in these segues, and it gives me a chance to relate to someone else on something they’re they’re going through that’s a win. So John would say, oh, as part of my personal win, I get to play golf on Friday, and I’m really looking forward to it. And then someone would say, oh, John, you’re playing golf. That’s great. Where are you playing? Well, instantly, we have a connection to each other that doesn’t have anything to do with work. And it’s actually engaging you, John, to tell me more about your life that is outside of the four walls of work that we’re in.

John Garrett [00:14:11]:
And how much do you think it matters that people have this and that have these other dimensions?

Matt Haney [00:14:16]:
I think it’s imperative. I I mean, matters is is is a light way of saying it. I think we dehumanize ourselves at times by saying we’re expecting you to work eight hours a day, forty hours a week. And if you’re not given a 10%, we’re gonna knock you. It’s like, wait. Let’s talk about some of the stuff we’re doing outside of work because when I leave the office, I leave the office. And I think being able to have that relatable time to somebody, the segue gives us that opportunity in this meeting structure I mentioned, but just allows us to be human and have a connection to somebody that is in our work life. And we owe it to each other as people to know what’s going on.

Matt Haney [00:14:53]:
So I feel it’s it’s mission critical.

John Garrett [00:14:55]:
And it’s not, like, creepy. I need to, like, know all the intimate details of everything. It’s just, hey. What lights you up on a deeper level? Do you make money? What do you do with that money? Like, where are you going? Like, what are we doing with this? You know? And you’re a human that is a COO. Like, you’re not a COO, you’re a human that’s bigger and badder and so much greater than a job title, and we allow ourselves to be put into this little thimble of a job title. And it’s like, woah, what are you trying to do here?

Matt Haney [00:15:21]:
You would be and maybe you wouldn’t, but your listeners would probably be be amazed at when we introduce that format that humanizes the meeting, how it physically changes the meeting, the way that we start on a mood that’s high. We don’t talk about your problems. We talk about good things. Yes. We all have them. We can talk about those at a different time. But right now, we’re gonna start this meeting on a positive note. And me understanding that your end to golf or fishing or travel or plants or whatever allows you to say something that you love.

Matt Haney [00:15:49]:
So that’s really special, and I think humanizing that genuine curiosity about other people that are in meetings with you just just makes things impactful. So but let me I wanna segue this back to golf because I do think that we were on that, and I got on a tangent, which I’m guilty of.

John Garrett [00:16:03]:
No. No. No. I love it because I wanted to run with that because, I mean, what you were saying was spot on in how much it matters to having these human connections. And I’m sure you have some amazing, like, favorite golf stories or Oh.

Matt Haney [00:16:15]:
You know,

John Garrett [00:16:16]:
courses that you’ve done. Or

Matt Haney [00:16:17]:
I love traditions. Right? You heard me mention that one earlier about the golf tournament that I’m qualifying for. And it just gives me that and it gives you that passion that I love. And one of the things I do every other year is I organize a trip for 12 guys to go to the Southern Coast Of Oregon, 4 Hours South of Portland and about five hours north of San Francisco to a very famous golf resort called Bandon Dunes.

John Garrett [00:16:38]:
Oh, yeah.

Matt Haney [00:16:39]:
Bandon Dunes is is my happy place. I think I’ve been 10 times, and I’m known as the commissioner because I curate this trip, and we hand select and hand curate the 12 finest golfers for this trip. We get together for four days, and I’m not kidding. We walk 50 miles over four days from sunup to sundown. We play golf. We share stories. We talk trash, and we just enjoy being outside. And, John, I’m telling you, it has become part of me.

Matt Haney [00:17:10]:
And, you know, my buddies love that I organize it, and I put it together, and I get and I get such value out of being the commish. Right? And everyone, like, ribs me about it. They’re like, oh, you don’t wanna piss off the commish. You know? You don’t wanna

John Garrett [00:17:22]:
you don’t wanna change up this. You you don’t wanna show up late

Matt Haney [00:17:26]:
because you won’t get asked back. So

John Garrett [00:17:30]:
it’s just

Matt Haney [00:17:30]:
a fun way of of having my buddies join me in this thing, and my wife and family have learned that it’s something I do every other year. And and then, you know, over over those trips, you get to add other people. And then all of a sudden, these people have their own careers, and they got you see them going through their families, and you see them going through struggles. One of my very close friends is just coming out of brain surgery. He had brain cancer. He’s had two surgeries. He’s finished his first round of chemo. He’s well on his way, and we’ve been able to support him.

Matt Haney [00:17:57]:
Golf has helped us support this guy through this struggle that he’s had, and I would have never met the guy if we weren’t playing golf together. I would have never been able to support him if we didn’t have that time on the golf course together. And it’s been that trip, the game, the relationships I’ve formed, I mean, life changing, literally.

John Garrett [00:18:16]:
You’re deep. That’s so powerful, man. What a beautiful message there too. And so, I mean, I imagine that dovetails with travel as well because, obviously, you have to travel some to get to these golf courses. So, but I’m sure there’s travel without golf as well.

Matt Haney [00:18:29]:
There is travel without golf. I’m gonna touch on golf first, and I’m gonna quickly turn into kind of how I got the travel bug and how that ties into my other end. So golf and travel is good. The challenge with golf and travel is that golf takes a lot of time. Golf’s very expensive, and golf requires you good golfers requires you to bring all your stuff.

John Garrett [00:18:47]:
Right.

Matt Haney [00:18:48]:
Right. So I think when you’re going for golf, you’re going for golf because you gotta bring your bag. You gotta bring your shoes. And, by the way, you can’t just use the rental clubs from those because they’re not yours. They don’t feel the same. They don’t look the same. They have all the things. Right? Golfers Now

John Garrett [00:18:59]:
I got all the excuses. Yeah. I thought the seven iron goes one fifty. What’s up with this?

Matt Haney [00:19:03]:
Like That’s exactly right. So golf and travel. There is travel, and there’s golf specific travel. And sometimes travel and golf don’t mix because you’re just like, hey. I don’t wanna play one round because it’s not gonna be fun for me because I need my own stuff. So so, anyway, like, all my buddies are like, oh, you’re going on a trip. Are you playing? I’m like, oh, no. I’m not because because I’m a sicko.

Matt Haney [00:19:24]:
It’s gotta be perfect. So so, anyway, I I the golf travel happens intentionally, and that’s fun. But yeah. So so to move to travel, because I think this is this is what’s interesting with travel is I met my wife twenty two years ago, and her grandfather, who I met when he was in his late seventies, and we had several good years together before he passed away. They really instilled the travel bug on me and and my wife and, ultimately, my wife’s parents. And we traveled a little bit growing up, but it was more regionally around The States. And and it wasn’t till I met my what is my grandfather in law, my wife’s grandfather. He was married for, you know, sixty years before he passed away, and it was very important for him and his wife, my wife’s grandmother, to travel.

Matt Haney [00:20:07]:
And he saw all all seven continents and traveled with a collapsible six piece fishing rod in the bottom of his travel suitcase. So picture up, you know, a nine foot fishing rod broken down into six sections. That ends up being about 24 inches long or whatever in a tube. And part of his deal was that everywhere he traveled, he fished because all he really needed was a rod, and he didn’t have all the gear that we talked about in golf. And I became so fascinated with that. I met my wife when I was in my early twenties. So my area is my brain still developing, and I see this family that’s interested in travel, and they embody the motto, you know, spend money on experiences, not things. Like, they truly embody that motto.

Matt Haney [00:20:53]:
And in his kitchen, in his apartment, he had just pictures of travel, pictures of fishing, and pictures of places that he went. And that’s when people used to put photographs on walls, not on phones.

John Garrett [00:21:03]:
And actually print them?

Matt Haney [00:21:04]:
Yeah. Exactly. Right? You put them in a case. So you walk in this room, and all of a sudden, you’re like, wow. There are so many stories. And he’d point to him on the wall, and he’d say, that’s from King Salmon, Alaska. We went up and all this stuff, and I’m just like, my head blows up because I didn’t have that. I didn’t have that creativity or that ability to think and and see that far.

John Garrett [00:21:26]:
Or outside of Texas.

Matt Haney [00:21:27]:
Exactly. Like what? Like Yeah. So that travel bug that I was given, thanks to my wife’s grandfather, changed me and turned me into seeing what’s out there. And and now I have three kids that, you know, 15, 13, and nine, and they have the bug too because it’s been a priority of ours. And rarely do you meet somebody in the world that doesn’t wanna talk about travel. So, again, if we tie this back to work, if we use those segues, like, I I gotta be careful about the travel stories that I share because I don’t want people to, you know, see me as a as a leader. They’re like, oh, he gets to do all this stuff. That must be nice.

Matt Haney [00:22:04]:
But but I I always say, like, where where do you wanna go? What do you wanna see? We use that as a segue. It’s like, hey. If you could go anywhere you know, we start a meeting. If you could go anywhere, where would you wanna go? And that turns into conversation, and then I get to relate to that person again. So travel just is one of those things that just about anybody can take a bite of that apple and talk about it and and open up and say there’s some curiosity about seeing other places.

John Garrett [00:22:28]:
And do you have any places that you’ve been that have been some of your favorites?

Matt Haney [00:22:32]:
Yes. I do, actually. Great question. One of my favorite places to go is the mountains. I’m I’m my happiest person in a mountain stream with the water running either on a boat drifting with the current or standing in the current fishing with a fishing technique called fly fishing where we’re we’re using artificial lures the size sometimes of, you know, very small pencil erasers, if not smaller, to catch fish to then put back in the river so they can go get caught again. I mean, it’s kind of a weird thing. Right?

John Garrett [00:23:01]:
Just the dumb ones get caught over and over.

Matt Haney [00:23:03]:
Exactly.

John Garrett [00:23:03]:
Like, the smart ones are like, okay. You got me once.

Matt Haney [00:23:06]:
Travel in the mountains is special, but the most memorable trip I’ve had was probably three years ago. We went to Israel and got to travel with my family through Israel, and we went to Jerusalem. We went to the Negev Desert. We went to the Dead Sea, and this was all before the latest issue that’s been going on over there, but it was amazing. And my kids will forever remember it. They’re at that age. And when you’re trying to plan travel with kids, you gotta time it right because they’re too young. They don’t remember.

Matt Haney [00:23:33]:
It’s too complicated. They’re too old. They don’t wanna go because they’re too busy with all the other things. So we’re really in that prime time travel time with with our kids, and my lovely, amazing, talented wife loves it as well. And she will help us budget, and she will help us think and plan. She’s the logistical queen in the relationship, and she makes all that happen. And I’m so grateful for it because if it was up to me, you know, we’d be going to the you know, around the corner for for a sleepover as travel. So I think having a spouse that’s aligned with you on it makes it so much more enjoyable and fun.

Matt Haney [00:24:10]:
And

John Garrett [00:24:11]:
Yeah. It does. Yeah. Because you definitely have to be on the same page. And especially then you add kids to the travel. It’s like, oh, boy.

Matt Haney [00:24:18]:
Yeah. Are you guys into traveling? Is that something you

John Garrett [00:24:20]:
got? Absolutely. All over.

Matt Haney [00:24:21]:
What what’s your I’m flip you. I flipped you. Flip the script right here. Where’s your favorite place to go? What are you gonna do?

John Garrett [00:24:25]:
Yeah. Well, no. I’ve been to The Maldives, Dubai, Bali, Singapore. It’s neat to get out of the comfort zone a little bit and be like, Oh, this is how other people this is their normal. And, you know, having done Israel, but to live that history would be so awesome. You know? Because, I mean, I’ve been places where history has happened.

Matt Haney [00:24:46]:
Absolutely. I mean, you’re you’re there in in the in the old city of Jerusalem where three different sects of of religion have been created, and you can literally see those places here and there, and it’s like, holy cow. This is special. And you go through that city. You go through different neighborhoods, and there’s literally, this is the Christian area, and this is the Muslim area, and this is the Jewish area. It’s like, wow. This is all right here. And you can throw a baseball to the differences, and you see the the culture, and it is truly, truly eye opening.

Matt Haney [00:25:12]:
And in addition, some of the most incredible food you’ll ever eat. I’m a big fan of the Mediterranean diet. I’m a big fan of of all of the dips and the things and the that. And it’s like to get to experience food when you travel is a big thing as well.

John Garrett [00:25:26]:
That’s awesome, man. And it sounds like it it all translates to work in the way that it just humanizes you as a leader, but also humanizes the people around you and gets us to create genuine sticky connection before we actually do the work and get the work done, and it makes work run better.

Matt Haney [00:25:44]:
Regardless of where people are in their financial situation, if you pique someone’s interest in the conversations that you’re having with them, you can help them get there. You can really help them get you know, yes, we have to accomplish our our work and our goals at work. But, you know, if you tell me, John, hey. My goal is to go, you know, Israel. The next time I see you, you know what I’m gonna say? Hey. What are you doing towards that trip? You got something going there? Yeah. We talked about it, but I’m not kidding. I was at the chiropractor earlier today.

Matt Haney [00:26:12]:
The chiropractor tells me he’s going to Italy, the Southern Coast Of Italy, the Amalfi Coast, and my eyes light up because it’s an amazing place. And he’s like, we’ve never been. This is what we’re doing, and it’s like, boom. Okay. I said, I’m a text you this, and I sent him three Instagram pages of places he needed to go. And here’s the guy in this town, and he’s this. I mean, instantly, the guy was like, I never would have found those places. I don’t have to worry about whether or not there are places to go because you’ve been there.

Matt Haney [00:26:38]:
And he was grateful. And had I not asked him about where he’s traveling or what he’s doing, we wouldn’t have had that connection. So that’s a real life example of being curious about others in a setting where that probably would have never come up had I not said, what’s your end? Or what do you do what are you doing outside of work?

John Garrett [00:26:56]:
I mean, a lot of the organizations that I do consulting with, we weave in to the annual goal setting. You have your at work goal, but what are your what’s your out outside of work goal? And we’re actually working to achieve that. If you haven’t been on a golfing trip all year, let’s get the calendar out and figure this out, because I need to make sure that you’re golfing and and traveling and fishing, and you’re doing these things because if you’re gonna live your best life, then you’ll be doing your best work on accident.

Matt Haney [00:27:24]:
That’s exactly right. And that goes from top to bottom of the organizations. I think that, you know, there’s this perception false perception that if I’m so busy at work, it’s so cool. Oh, I’m so busy. It’s like, I don’t know that you’re gonna get brownie points with me if you tell me you’re so overwhelmed at work. And, you know, I mean, my goal is to help you prioritize those things and figure out what’s important so that you’re not it’s not cool to be busy. Right. It’s not.

John Garrett [00:27:48]:
When I used to work in corporate, people would be like, oh, I worked fifty hours or whatever, sixty hours. And I remember I’d be like, why? Like, are you just not good at your job? Like, what what took you so long? Like, why were you

Matt Haney [00:27:59]:
Well, I gotta put the hours in, John. You’re like, okay. Okay.

John Garrett [00:28:02]:
Yeah. No. I love it, man. That’s so fantastic. And it’s those things that that really matter. Those, I guess, sometimes I call them the non billable minutes that are between the billable hours. You know? Those those little things. And it’s not a lot of time.

John Garrett [00:28:15]:
It’s it’s the intention behind it.

Matt Haney [00:28:17]:
That’s exactly right. And well said. The intention behind it is the root need. So that’s awesome. Well well said.

John Garrett [00:28:23]:
Well, this has been so great, Matt. But I feel like since I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, it’s only fair that I turn the tables and make this the Matt Haney podcast.

Matt Haney [00:28:33]:
Welcome to the hot seat, John. My name is Matt Haney. I’m gonna ask you I’m gonna ask you a few questions here. I’d like to answer them. We’re not gonna do rapid fire, but I do need to know a few things. We clued on one earlier. I’m gonna save that one. But you’ve done, what, 600 plus episodes of this.

Matt Haney [00:28:48]:
Yeah. Right? There’s gotta be some that stick out or some concepts or something that was from no like, I didn’t think that would be something that resonated or or or something memorable about a a person or, you know, what makes this special 600 times later?

John Garrett [00:29:05]:
I think a couple of things come to mind is that if I had to look down the list of the guests, I could tell you what every single one of their hands are, but I can’t tell you what any of their jobs are probably.

Matt Haney [00:29:16]:
That’s fantastic.

John Garrett [00:29:17]:
But it I think it’s because I know who they are through their end, and their job title is ancillary. Like, it just doesn’t matter. And so I could tell you that for all of my guests. And, also, I think it’s really interesting to me how the epiphanies that have happened while we’re in the conversation where people are like, I didn’t even realize how this impacted my work. I thought it was an only outside of work thing. I didn’t even realize how much it impacts my career and my success. It’s never once been, oh, I shared it at work and I got fired. It’s never once been a bad thing.

John Garrett [00:29:54]:
It’s always an enhancer, and it’s not even just a two x. It’s like a hundred x enhancer to people’s careers. And so the epiphanies that happen during the conversation are really special for me because it’s like, you get it. There we go. You’re already there, and you had that offline at some point in your life, but you recognize it. And it’s cool that you’re bringing that to the people around you now so they get it maybe at a sooner time in their career.

Matt Haney [00:30:20]:
Exactly. And that’s the goal is that if I learn this at at an age and I can impart that wisdom to someone at a younger age, then here we are. Then we’re just gonna keep that circle of giving going and making sure that that those gifts are given as soon as soon as possible. That’s awesome. Okay. Well, let me let me segue that into the next question, which is give me one of the the more unique ands you’ve seen.

John Garrett [00:30:43]:
Yeah. I mean, there’s so I mean, like, stained glass. It’s been one person. I mean, that’s a unique thing that I’ve never met anyone that’s done stained glass. Like, I I mean, you just don’t know that about, you know, anyone. That was a unique one. There was one that was pretty neat I remember was a woman, she was raised in Russia in ballet and did like really high level dance in Russia, moved to The US, started at a CPA firm, and they were doing a dancing with the stars kind of a thing in their city in Louisville, Kentucky, and the managing partner wanted to do it, and so she was the expert now. She was the alpha in this relationship with the managing partner of her firm being a brand new amateur.

John Garrett [00:31:28]:
And so that’s a neat dichotomy there where you have someone that’s a very lower level that is the alpha in the relationship of someone that’s a senior level, very, I mean, at the top of your organization at work. But then when we get onto that dance floor, then I’m the boss, and you’re asking me questions. You know, she wasn’t, you know, that way about it, but, you know, it’s just something where it’s it allows leaders to be more vulnerable and come down from that pedestal that leaders don’t realize they’re on because just your title alone is intimidating to a 22 year old right out of school. And you don’t realize it, but when you were 22, you definitely felt that. I mean, I know I did. And then, you know, the ones that come out from their desk and are more vulnerable and are more human are the ones that I remember and the ones that you wanna be with more.

Matt Haney [00:32:21]:
That’s exactly right. And and well said. You wanna stand next to the people that are genuinely curious and not all knowing, and that empathy and that humility is something that I try to make sure as I’m leading teams that we’re leading with that, you know, the curiosity and and the humility because we’ve all got something to learn. All of us.

John Garrett [00:32:39]:
And you hit two golf balls into a lake in one one round, and you’re like, yep. There you go.

Matt Haney [00:32:44]:
That’s a goal. Turns out I’m just another dude with a stick and a ball. One more question. Give me one of your goals for the year, and you don’t have to go too deep. You may have them run down. You may not, which is fine. But, you know, what are you working on that if we wake up in January of twenty twenty six and you hope to have this accomplished? And And it it can be anything. It can be personal work, whatever.

John Garrett [00:33:06]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think for me, it’s getting out of my own way and, you know, being seen more, having more pieces out on social and on LinkedIn, and more of the ideas and the thoughts that I have in my head out there, as opposed to I only share them when I’m on stage, you know, and at a conference, or I only share them when I’m one on one coaching executives, or I only share them at a leadership retreat that I’m facilitating. You know, it’s like, no, no. Like, get it out there because more people need to hear and see this. And and I truly believe this is our collective message.

Matt Haney [00:33:42]:
Yes.

John Garrett [00:33:42]:
It’s not my message. It’s our message.

Matt Haney [00:33:45]:
So Yep. You’re the facilitator of the message.

John Garrett [00:33:47]:
Yeah. I just happen to be the mouthpiece of this.

Matt Haney [00:33:49]:
There you go.

John Garrett [00:33:50]:
The pressure’s off.

Matt Haney [00:33:51]:
So who’s gonna hold you accountable to that?

John Garrett [00:33:53]:
Matt Haney. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him. But,

Matt Haney [00:33:55]:
I Listen. I would love to set a calendar invite to touch base with you in forty five days on the prog I’m I’m kidding. But I do think I I I led you there. Everybody needs to tell somebody what their goals are because when you see that person, whether you have coffee with them or they’re in a bible study with you or whatever it is, like, they need to know what you’re working towards because everybody needs a nudge and everyone needs to be able to count all. So I I would encourage you, if you don’t, share that what you just shared with me. Yes. You’ve shared it to the public. But find somebody in your in your circle that can help you get to that that goal.

John Garrett [00:34:25]:
All the listeners now will start bombarding me.

Matt Haney [00:34:27]:
They’re all gonna be sending you emails.

John Garrett [00:34:29]:
There we go. No. But this has been so great, Matt. Thank you so much for just being a living example of What’s Your “And”? and coming on and sharing this with everyone.

Matt Haney [00:34:37]:
Thanks for having me. This is so fun, and I love what you’re doing and delighted to be a part of it.

John Garrett [00:34:44]:
Cool. And thank you so much. And everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Matt out there traveling or golfing or fishing, connect with him on social media. Be sure to go to www.whatsyourand.com. All the links and everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.