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Jen Hamilton [00:00:05]:
Hi. This is Jen Hamilton. And when I’m not practicing jiu jitsu, I’m listening to John Garrett on What’s Your Aunt?

John Garrett [00:00:17]:
Welcome to episode six seventy one of What’s Your And? This is John Garrett. And each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and. Those things above and beyond your technical skills are things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at what’syourand.com.

John Garrett [00:00:50]:
The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those. And more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right. This voice reading the book. Look for What’s Your Hand on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes.

John Garrett [00:01:16]:
I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, Jen Hamilton. She’s a fractional COO with Hamilton COOs, and now she’s with me here today. Jen, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your And.

Jen Hamilton [00:01:32]:
John, thank you so much for having me as a guest.

John Garrett [00:01:34]:
This is gonna be so much fun. I don’t know a ton about jiu jitsu. I barely know how to spell it, so this is gonna be a blast. But I have 17 rapid fire questions, get to know Jen out of the gate here. So this is a fun one I like. Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jen Hamilton [00:01:49]:
Star Wars. If you could see where I am right now, I would be in trouble with my son and my husband if I didn’t say that. I would be, like, kicked out of the house.

John Garrett [00:01:57]:
Right. That’s hilarious. Alright. How about your computer? More PC or a Mac?

Jen Hamilton [00:02:02]:
Mac.

John Garrett [00:02:03]:
Oh, really? Fancy. Okay. Alright. Alright. I didn’t know COOs are allowed to do stuff like that. Out of the box thinking.

Jen Hamilton [00:02:10]:
Uh-oh. Right.

John Garrett [00:02:11]:
Exactly. How about a favorite day of the week?

Jen Hamilton [00:02:14]:
That’s a good question. You know what? I’m gonna go with Monday because I love my work so much, I get to get back to work.

John Garrett [00:02:21]:
Okay. Alright. That works. How about a least favorite vegetable?

Jen Hamilton [00:02:25]:
Peppers. Technically, they’re a fruit, but I’m still gonna put them in

John Garrett [00:02:28]:
the That counts for me. That counts for me. I’ll take it. Totally. How about more cats or dogs?

Jen Hamilton [00:02:33]:
Definitely dogs.

John Garrett [00:02:34]:
Alright. Yeah. You have the some accounting background as well in there. Do you have are you more balance sheet or income statement?

Jen Hamilton [00:02:41]:
I would say balance sheet.

John Garrett [00:02:42]:
Okay.

Jen Hamilton [00:02:43]:
I’m good with that balance. You know, I’m a little bit clear on what my assets are, preferably much higher than the liabilities.

John Garrett [00:02:50]:
Right. Exactly. And then goodwill, all of that extra stuff, and equity. Are you more diamonds or pearls?

Jen Hamilton [00:02:56]:
Probably, personality wise, I’d say pearl. What I’m wear is diamonds because you’re supposed to, you know, when you’re married.

John Garrett [00:03:04]:
Right. Like, wear the ring. Alright. Alright. Sparkly. Alright. I like it. How about you have a favorite number?

Jen Hamilton [00:03:11]:
8.

John Garrett [00:03:12]:
Is there a reason?

Jen Hamilton [00:03:13]:
It’s a dumb reason. I mean, I like its curves. It’s like from when you’re little. Right? And then at the time, my boyfriend’s name started with an s, and I thought that was fun. Oh, okay. What’s what’s funny is I’m married to Steve, so, you know, I can keep the eight as a favorite because it looks like an s.

John Garrett [00:03:29]:
Yeah. S and a backwards s on top of each other. There you go. Alright. I like that. I never thought of that until just straight now. I like it. How about when it comes to books? You audio version, ebook, or real book?

Jen Hamilton [00:03:39]:
Audio. And then if it’s really good, I get it on Kindle. And that way, I can read them together.

John Garrett [00:03:44]:
Oh, yeah. Because they do have that where you can actually pick up where you left off between the two, which is pretty wild. How about, puzzles? Sudoku, crossword, maybe a jigsaw puzzle?

Jen Hamilton [00:03:55]:
Jigsaw. Everything else is too much thinking. Puzzles are supposed to be kind of fun and relaxing.

John Garrett [00:04:00]:
Exactly. It’s too stressful. It’s like, ah, just show me the picture, and I make the picture. Perfect. How about do you have a favorite color? Blue. Nice. Mine too. Alright.

John Garrett [00:04:09]:
We can keep going. How about a least favorite color?

Jen Hamilton [00:04:12]:
You know, I would say gray because it’s not so much a color. It just sort of faded into the background.

John Garrett [00:04:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just sort of no. That’s fair. How about a favorite band or a musician?

Jen Hamilton [00:04:23]:
It’s been for a long time. My favorite band is U two. Oh, okay. Just sorta ages me a little bit. No. Not at all.

John Garrett [00:04:31]:
Think of a residency in Vegas, I think. They’re, like, still legit.

Jen Hamilton [00:04:34]:
I saw it. It was great.

John Garrett [00:04:35]:
Oh, really? Okay. Alright. Nice. Couple more. Favorite actor or an actress?

Jen Hamilton [00:04:40]:
You know, it’s funny because I was thinking, I’m not so good at, like, the favorite movies or actor and actress, but I thought, who am I always enjoying? And I’d have to go Will Ferrell because I love a good laugh.

John Garrett [00:04:52]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. His movies are always hilarious. Yeah. Very funny. Very funny. Two more toilet paper rolls.

John Garrett [00:04:58]:
This is super important. Over or under?

Jen Hamilton [00:05:00]:
It’s gotta be over. When my daughter does it under, I’m like, how did I have you as a kid? Like, this is so wrong.

John Garrett [00:05:08]:
Right? Yeah. That’s when you go to your husband. Your daughter.

Jen Hamilton [00:05:11]:
Yeah. Exactly. Must be from your son.

John Garrett [00:05:14]:
Right. Right. That’s all there is. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or a favorite thing you own?

Jen Hamilton [00:05:19]:
Goes back to the the why I like dogs question. So favorite thing I have is my two, because I’m in San Diego, Mexican street dog rescues.

John Garrett [00:05:27]:
Oh, nice. They’re

Jen Hamilton [00:05:28]:
both from Mexico and rescued off the street, and they’re so loving and so loyal. I think they know how bad it could be and are very grateful.

John Garrett [00:05:36]:
Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s so great. I love it. So let’s talk jujitsu. How did you get started with that? Is that something you did when you were younger?

Jen Hamilton [00:05:44]:
No. But it is something my son did when he was younger. So where it started is that very much a sweet young boy and thus bullied and just not having the confidence and all that kind of stuff. And I was looking for I was looking for suggestions. People was like, hey. Have you looked into martial arts? I knew nothing about martial arts. I don’t like violence. I don’t, you know, like even watching movies with violence, that kind of thing.

Jen Hamilton [00:06:09]:
And so when I started to research what different things might help, it went like self defense and confidence. I liked what I found out about jiu jitsu because there’s no punching or kicking. It didn’t seem as violent. It’s much more about controlling your opponent and getting in control versus, like, you know, trying to make them really hurt.

John Garrett [00:06:29]:
Right.

Jen Hamilton [00:06:30]:
So you can, you know, get to the point and then stop if they say, okay, uncle.

John Garrett [00:06:34]:
Right.

Jen Hamilton [00:06:35]:
And so I put him in jiu jitsu when he was eight, and he had done this consistently. He’s now 21. He still can kick my butt in jiu jitsu. He’s he actually did it consistently. And then when he got into high school, the kind of high school that he went to is a charter school. So it was a little bit different than normal. And it was and in particular, it was a hybrid homeschool. So he was home doing school three days a week, and so they didn’t have to do PE.

Jen Hamilton [00:07:06]:
Oh. Which I think is actually just as an aside. I mean, like, the worst part of high school is PE. I think that’s where so much leftover psychological issues people have. Yeah. At least for me. Anyway, so he got to pick whatever he wanted to do for PE. And I said, well, instead of going after school to do PE, why don’t we look at whatever the calendar is? And there was a 10AM, but it was an adults only class.

Jen Hamilton [00:07:34]:
And we said, Hey, he’s not an adult yet. Can you do it? And I’m like, Oh yeah. He’s really good. He’s been doing this for so long. So I, like the diligent mom, drove him there, got on my laptop, was working while he was doing class, and I kept looking up and I said, You know what? I work out. I could probably do this. And I was like so it was funny because we were driving home when I said, you know what? I think I wanna try this. Because there were women in the class and that kind of thing, and I never really paid attention before, but it just looked like a good workout.

Jen Hamilton [00:08:05]:
And I said to him I was like, okay. How do I tell this to him so that he’s okay with his mother, you know, being in class with him? And I said, you know, Jake, wouldn’t it be cool if you could beat me up on a regular basis and show me who’s boss?

John Garrett [00:08:21]:
And he’s like, What are you talking about?

Jen Hamilton [00:08:24]:
So, apparently that worked because

John Garrett [00:08:25]:
he was like, Okay. You know, let’s try. That’s amazing.

Jen Hamilton [00:08:28]:
That’s what got me me into it. And that was almost seven and a half years ago, and I haven’t stopped since. But I probably should because I am definitely not good at it, but that’s okay. I just keep doing it for some reason, which I’m sure we’ll get into even more.

John Garrett [00:08:42]:
Yeah. But that’s the beauty of it, and that’s what makes it even more of an and is you don’t have to be good at it. It’s probably better that you’re not good at it, that it’s not revenue producing, that it’s not. It’s completely opposite of everything that we think is important. And yet, it’s something in your soul that gets lit up from this that won’t let you stop. And it’s beautiful that you found that even if it was accidentally through your son doing this for years and you dropping him off and but then there was a part of you that was like, hey. I can do I need to do this. Not just I can, but I need to, and you still are.

John Garrett [00:09:19]:
And that’s what’s so fantastic about it. And so jujitsu is it’s less of the striking and then, like you said, it’s, I guess, more of, is it, like, falling

Jen Hamilton [00:09:27]:
into the It’s wrestling.

John Garrett [00:09:29]:
Wrestling? Okay. Alright.

Jen Hamilton [00:09:30]:
Or judo and Olympics is the there’s some judo throws that we do and and different things. So it’s, yeah, judo meets wrestling. So what’s really funny is my dad was a wrestler in high school. By the way, since this is audio, we’re small people, so I’m not a big person.

John Garrett [00:09:47]:
So if you’re thinking, you

Jen Hamilton [00:09:48]:
could probably tell by my voice because I sound like I’m three.

John Garrett [00:09:51]:
Yeah. Are your parents home? Can we talk to your parents?

Jen Hamilton [00:09:54]:
Exactly. I have had that question on the phone. I’m like, I am so insulted.

John Garrett [00:09:59]:
Right.

Jen Hamilton [00:10:01]:
So I am petite. I’m not very tall. My dad is petite too, and he had two girls. So I don’t think he ever thought he’d have his girls end up wrestling. And he won’t come watch me. He actually won’t. Neither will my husband. They don’t wanna see me get beat up.

Jen Hamilton [00:10:16]:
So they only come to, like, when I get a, like, a belt ceremony and like some award, but they don’t come to the part before where I’m getting my butt kicked.

John Garrett [00:10:24]:
Or the other way around.

Jen Hamilton [00:10:25]:
I’m trying to do some butt kicks.

John Garrett [00:10:27]:
Yeah. Because it’s like, oh, man. I didn’t know she could do that. I need to watch my mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe just invite some clients over that are a little late on some stuff.

Jen Hamilton [00:10:35]:
Yeah. Just every once in a while when they are giving me heck, I’ll be like, well, when I just did jujitsu this morning, they’re like, oh, I can’t mess

John Garrett [00:10:42]:
with it. Right. That’s hilarious. That’s awesome. But do you have any more rewarding stories or more memories that that come to mind of that are, like, really just, I guess, deep and impactful of things from your jujitsu time?

Jen Hamilton [00:10:57]:
Yeah. I think the biggest thing is there’s a couple points that are really impactful. And the first thing was I was % wrong. When I was watching my son and these other people, they made it look easy. It is not easy at all. It’s not anything like I’ve ever done before. And for and I’m not very athletic. As I shared, my PE days were not so great.

Jen Hamilton [00:11:21]:
I thought I was going to just pick this up very easily, and I still struggle. It’s still a challenge. And, you know, I I was like, I can do this. I’m athletic. And I think one of the things that’s so impactful of that is that I think there are things we can just look at from the outside when you see other people who make it so effortless and easy. You’re like, I can do that. And then when you get into something new or just not in your zone of genius, it’s so challenging. And that’s what’s been a gift this whole time is that work is challenging enough.

Jen Hamilton [00:11:59]:
The work that I do is really cleaning up other people’s messes. And it’s like a jigsaw puzzle and trying to put it back together and create a new picture once it’s all done. I have difficult conversations. I have to say difficult things. I’m dealing with possible, like, closing of the doors, and I’m the last chance to save it. And so being in something that’s still seven and a half years later is very hard and challenging. Like, I’m not a natural. I think it’s a gift.

Jen Hamilton [00:12:27]:
It’s a gift to be able to say, I can do hard things. It allows me to push myself in business and as an entrepreneur to do things that normally would scare me. It’s like, well, at least I’m not getting choked or my arm broken, you know? So it really does give you an interesting perspective. And that I know I’m getting better and I’m getting recognized for getting better. Maybe it takes me a little longer, but that’s also the trick of your work or your mastery of any personal or professional skill is that it takes a lot of practice, a lot of patience, and continuing to learn from others who are great, being with a community of others who are supportive, because I have a very supportive community, and they’re very patient with me because I the people that I work or spar with mostly are almost exactly a hundred pounds more than me and are men. So I always joke them like, oh, no. You gotta, you know, you gotta be with the little one kind of thing. You know, like, they literally can throw me around, but we’ve found in what can make them better by being with someone who is really easily to wrestle with because it challenges them and their thinking and, you know, not just using what’s easy, but how can I still do this? And I’m obviously being very challenged to do something that looks impossible.

Jen Hamilton [00:13:55]:
I mean, if you put the two of us together, you’d be like, she’s gonna die. Right?

John Garrett [00:14:02]:
Maybe we should just nod and say we did.

Jen Hamilton [00:14:04]:
Right. And I joke to you that, like, if I get a little hurt or something, I’ll be like, didn’t your mother tell you not to beat up on girls?

John Garrett [00:14:11]:
And I’m like, I’m so sorry. I’m like, no.

Jen Hamilton [00:14:12]:
I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding.

John Garrett [00:14:14]:
Yeah. But, I mean, it is something where, like, when you go through it and then I mean, for, you know, almost eight years now, like, that’s commitment and that’s, you know, doing hard things. And like you said, that that meant it’s great to hear that how when you’re at work and you’re doing hard things there, you’re like, well, I can do that because I’ve been doing it for eight years over here. It translates over, even though it’s not the exact same thing, that mindset and that willpower is different than other people that have the same technical skills that you do. And they have different ands and skills that come from that too. But it’s beautiful to hear that you’re able to draw on that, and it’s not just an aside that is something I do at 10AM once a week. It’s no. I see the crossover here, and I’m able to draw on that.

John Garrett [00:15:02]:
That’s awesome.

Jen Hamilton [00:15:03]:
There are times when I’m like, why am I still doing this? Because I come home with bruises, and I wish I did the 10AM class anymore, but now I do the 6AM class.

John Garrett [00:15:13]:
Oh my goodness. Okay. Yeah.

Jen Hamilton [00:15:16]:
Once my son was able to drive, I was like, okay. I need to get work done really during 10AM.

John Garrett [00:15:22]:
That makes sense.

Jen Hamilton [00:15:23]:
I gotta come before work. And so it was it’s been in that class, and I joke with him, like, come with me. But, you know, he’s, well, now he’s a college student, and they don’t get up that early. Like, there are times when I’m getting up and he’s coming to bed, you know, so it doesn’t quite work for his schedule.

John Garrett [00:15:38]:
Totally. No. I can hear that. And is this something that you share with clients? I know you jokingly said earlier. But is it something that they know about?

Jen Hamilton [00:15:46]:
Not always. So it’s always a fun surprise because, again, my personality, the way I look doesn’t look like someone. And in my background, you can see I have, like, Disney things. I just look like a I hope I look like a warm hug, you know, not like someone who’s going to potentially choke you.

John Garrett [00:16:07]:
Warm hug you and then choke you while I’m hugging you.

Jen Hamilton [00:16:10]:
Right. Exactly. Like, turn that hug into something bad. Right. So so it’s really interesting for them to see that side of me. And there’s always the joke, like, okay. We can’t mess with you. But at the same time, it’s really nice because I can make analogies to this when I’m relating to people.

Jen Hamilton [00:16:30]:
Even if they haven’t done that, I can say, you know, when I’m trying new things or when I have a challenging partner or sports in general have a lot of great analogies to our relationship, to goals, our relationship to each other in the work environment. And I think that’s part of what I love about listening to your show is there’s so much brilliance in balancing the experiences you have outside of work with work. It just makes you a greater person, but it makes you also just more empathetic and understanding because you’ve got these different experiences and you can relate to each other even if it’s completely different. So I I think that it brings a little bit more of my humanity, my willingness to do things that over and over again that I’m challenged by that I’m not naturally great at, but that I don’t give up. I just keep going, and I keep trying. So I you were asking earlier where are other times when I feel remember things, and getting my belt was a very big deal. One, it took me a lot longer than most people, but my it gives me a clue into some of my strengths which are determination and never giving up and being consistent, just, like, continually going. And that is not I realized that’s not something a lot of people are great at.

John Garrett [00:17:47]:
No. Not at all. And especially if they’re not getting easy positive rewards, you know. So it’s like, oh, wow. This is gonna be some work. But you have a gazillion more belts than I do because I have zero. So, you know, don’t pooh pooh that, you know. Like, that’s the thing is I talk to people and they’re like, Oh, well, I only have this or I only did comedy one time or I only Yo, that’s a million times more than anybody else.

John Garrett [00:18:10]:
Don’t ever downplay that. I love it because it’s showing up with all of you. You. Imagine trying to go to work with one arm tied behind your back or trying to go do You can’t. And so, these are all parts of you that all matter. And I would argue that the work part of you matters even less than all the other ones. But for whatever reason, we flip it upside down and make that the most important and all consuming. And so, it’s great to be like, No, there are other dimensions to who I am and they all are important and they all matter.

John Garrett [00:18:41]:
So, it’s beautiful that you’ve been able to find that. I mean, you know, because there’s a lot of people that go through life, they never even find that thing. And so, you know, you have and I would wear that belt every day. So, like, I put it on as a headband.

Jen Hamilton [00:18:52]:
It doesn’t always match, but what you will like is that it’s currently blue. My next belt would be purple, and I’m like, maybe I just stick with blue.

John Garrett [00:19:00]:
Is there a dark blue? Can I do a in between? Like, it’s

Jen Hamilton [00:19:03]:
Exactly. That’s

John Garrett [00:19:04]:
awesome. I love it. That’s so great. And so before you got into jiu jitsu, is there something else that you would share with people at work or was it more of just all work all the time?

Jen Hamilton [00:19:15]:
I’m not an all work all the time person. I used to be and that didn’t work well. But by used to be, I mean, actually through college in my first few years of actual professional work. Because to your point earlier, that’s what we think we’re supposed to be. We’re supposed to be about work, about our, when it was school grades, about being in the best company and doing the best thing and that kind of recognition. And what it really did was make me pretty sick, like really ill from the anxiety, from the pressure, from the stress, from the worry of not being like that best and not getting the best kind of thing, but the pressure I put on myself. And so I started to really dive into all kinds of personal development. It’s why I like listening to podcasts more than just random music.

Jen Hamilton [00:20:13]:
You know, I just really want to continue to expand who I could be and what I can be and what I can do. And so by doing that, part of that is probably why I’d be willing to do jiu jitsu in the first place because I never saw myself as athletic. I was always cut from the team barely even walking on to the field. You know, they’re like, oh, no.

John Garrett [00:20:35]:
Right. We already have a manager.

Jen Hamilton [00:20:37]:
We’re good. Exactly. Like, seriously, in swimming, I did do swimming in high school, and they’re like, maybe you could be our manager. So the last year

John Garrett [00:20:45]:
I was Oh my goodness.

Jen Hamilton [00:20:46]:
So I literally was. I have a little m on my letterman jacket. I’m like, at least it’s something. So for me to, like, I had to grow beyond this small view of myself as just this work product and to see myself as being able to be brave to try new things, to do things that aren’t my I am this or I am not that. You know, just to really challenge that I am not, and it makes me, I think, a much better leader. And that’s ultimately my main job and has been for quite a few years is leading others, whether that’s at work or even at home. It’s to empower. It’s to be vulnerable.

Jen Hamilton [00:21:28]:
It’s to be appreciative. And it takes failure to do that, which I’m really good at with athlete

John Garrett [00:21:34]:
athletes. Right. Jujitsu, apparently, it sounds like golf where it’s just a lot of failing or baseball.

Jen Hamilton [00:21:40]:
But you still get tiny bit better, and I think that’s a better reflection of life. But it’s the when you come home with a bruise, you’re like, how do I not do that again?

John Garrett [00:21:53]:
Right? And it’s not life and death. It’s a bruise. It’ll go away

Jen Hamilton [00:21:57]:
in a

John Garrett [00:21:57]:
little bit and we’ll be fine. And then I learn, don’t do that again.

Jen Hamilton [00:22:00]:
Mary Childs: Exactly.

John Garrett [00:22:01]:
Tim Keane: And so cool to hear the new and improved gen, if you will, because we come out of school and we get good grades, we do the great things, we get the job, we do all that, and then we completely lose who we are to a job title and we give all that up for security, we think, in money and title and whatever, all the things that are on the outside, even on the inside. And then so good for you for realizing that and going, Okay, I got to turn inwards and I got to fix that. And then everything comes from in out 10 times better.

Jen Hamilton [00:22:34]:
Yes.

John Garrett [00:22:35]:
And all of a sudden you realize like, What was I thinking? And it’s just the world spins us around and makes us dizzy so we don’t even know who we are anymore and then, you know, throws us out in there, you know, out to the wolves and it’s like, Holy cow. I don’t even know who I am. And so, like, you’re there now. And it doesn’t have to be this Norman Rockwell picture perfect painting. It’s real and it’s authentic and it’s empowered like you said, which is super cool to hear. So awesome. So do you have any words of encouragement to anybody listening that might have an end and they feel like no one cares or it has nothing to do with their job?

Jen Hamilton [00:23:11]:
I would say follow that gut instinct even if you later get punched to the gut because of it.

John Garrett [00:23:19]:
You took the mind right out of my mouth. Yeah. Exactly.

Jen Hamilton [00:23:25]:
But it will make you a better person. And when the day is done, it’s not about meeting this deadline or meeting this goal. It’s about being your best. And to be your best, it is about falling on your face. It is about trying something new. It is about really building the confidence that I can keep going no matter what. No.

John Garrett [00:23:44]:
I love it because sometimes you’re not gonna fall on your face. And then if you’re pleasantly surprised, you’re like, woah. I was ready. Oh, no bruise this time. Look at me. Alright.

Jen Hamilton [00:23:52]:
Sometimes I’ve actually successfully got people to tap and I was like, were you just being nice to me? They’re like, no. No. You really did it. I was like, yes. Right?

John Garrett [00:24:02]:
Can we get this on video? Right.

Jen Hamilton [00:24:03]:
It happened. I I won.

John Garrett [00:24:05]:
No. Good for you. I mean, you know, and that that just proves that it’s something that’s deeper inside you because there isn’t the quick rewards. There isn’t the financial the medals, the belts. They’re not all flowing in. It’s just something that brings you joy and that lights you up, and you can’t not do it now, which is really cool.

Jen Hamilton [00:24:24]:
And I think that’s what’s so great about finding what you’re in is it is that I can’t not do it. And it’s seeing a new side of you. Like, you get to learn more about you when you follow your ad. And I certainly have learned a lot more about me than I would have if I didn’t listen to that gut and go and try something new and then stick with it too. I continue to grow as a human being. And that’s the journey I think, that’s we’re all meant to be on, not just this career path.

John Garrett [00:24:51]:
Yeah. Exactly. It’s almost a finding all those pieces of ourselves that we accidentally broke off and buried subconsciously and forgot that we even had that part that we buried even. And so now all of a sudden they’re knocking. You open the door and you’re like, hey, I’m here. And you hugged it and you embraced it and here we go. So that’s beautiful. It’s so awesome.

John Garrett [00:25:09]:
Well, this has been so great, Jen. But I feel like it it’s only fair since I peppered you with questions at the beginning that we turn the tables, make this the Jen Hamilton podcast. So I’m all yours, whatever questions you have for me. I’m in the hot seat and I’m very nervous. So here we go.

Jen Hamilton [00:25:26]:
It’s okay. I’ll be kind, but I got some good ones.

John Garrett [00:25:28]:
Okay.

Jen Hamilton [00:25:29]:
Okay. So what is a bucket list item you already checked off?

John Garrett [00:25:33]:
Oh, wow. Okay. Quite a few, actually. The skydiving, I did that one. That was when just graduated from college. Yeah. Did that with one of my best friends, two of my best friends actually, out in Utah, which was really fun to do. That was a pretty cool one.

John Garrett [00:25:49]:
I mean, scuba diving, I’ve done that. Like, that’s been pretty fun.

Jen Hamilton [00:25:53]:
I love that. Okay. Next one. What’s a book or resource you go back to again and again?

John Garrett [00:25:59]:
Oh, man. This book by Steven Pressfield called The War of Art. It I read it at least two or three times a year. I love that book so much. It’s about how if you’re a creative, which I think we all are innately, but you have in you a statue of David, a Sistine Chapel, a masterpiece that you’re supposed to create or write or, you know, bring into the world, and resistance is there to stop you from doing that. And so as you head down that path, and this happened to me when I wrote my book, as you go down that path just crazy starts showing up and it starts interrupting you. And if it’s not, then you’re over, you know, doing a finger painting or some silly thing over on the side. That resistance is like, yeah.

John Garrett [00:26:45]:
Yeah. Go over there. And so then, you know, it’s kinda like you doing the jiu jitsu. You know, like, it’s not easy. There’s plenty of barricades being thrown down. It’s 6AM class. It’s all these things. No one your size, like all this.

John Garrett [00:26:57]:
And yet, every day, you have to fight resistance. And the way you do that is by doing the work and by doing it, you know, and because otherwise, it’ll just eat up your brain. And my inner critic is a, MMA champion. It will murder me and laugh about it in my face. And so it’s tough, you know, that inner critic to to fight that all the time. But yeah, but that was the longest answer to a book recommendation. But, The War of Art by Steven Pressfield is the short answer in case people skipped ahead. So there you go.

Jen Hamilton [00:27:29]:
Well, and I love that because you’re showing that humanity of resistance and that you keep going back to it just because we’re gonna keep facing resistance and that reminder that it is worth pursuing and continuing to have that creative passion be expressed?

John Garrett [00:27:43]:
Yeah. Always. I mean, you know, resistance is gonna trip you up all the time because its goal is to prevent you from that. And I kinda look at what’s your aim sort of, you know, you as a human are that masterpiece. And so resistance is preventing you from being a fully activated human by, you know, bringing all of who you are to all of what you do, the, you know, eudaimonia that Aristotle wrote about thousands of years ago. But, like, it’s bringing that to work and bringing that to home and bringing that to your friendships and even just to who you are when you’re alone. It’s that fully activated human. That professionalism, I think, is how it shows up in the corporate space.

John Garrett [00:28:20]:
Resistance and professionalism tells you, you know, all the stuff that you talked about when you were younger. You know, if you have to get this job, you have to get these grades, you have to do these things, they’re all lies. And so, you know, you gotta fight through that and be just fully activated you.

Jen Hamilton [00:28:35]:
I love that fully activated you. Very cool. K. I got one more. What’s your most memorable childhood adventure?

John Garrett [00:28:44]:
Wow.

Jen Hamilton [00:28:46]:
Let’s go Hawk Finn style.

John Garrett [00:28:49]:
I guess I mean, so many. I mean, I grew up military. My dad was in the air force, and so we lived a lot of places. We lived in the Azores. They’re islands in the Middle Atlantic Ocean. That was sixth and seventh grade, so it wasn’t exactly the greatest time to be in a foreign environment. But looking back on it, you learn a lot, but it it’s just difficult at that time in life. But people were super awesome and really cool experience looking back on it.

John Garrett [00:29:14]:
But, yeah, I would probably say probably one of the funniest things was when I was I must have been, like, five or six, and my dad was away. And so it was just my mom and me and then my younger brother. And I was I had a big wheel, that plastic low riding bike. You know, it had two fat tires on the back and one big wheel in the front. And I was really good at doing, like, skids. So you, like, kinda jackknife the front wheel and skid whiplash the back. And so I was doing that on the basketball court outside where we lived on base. And I apparently pinched it a little too tight once and rolled.

John Garrett [00:29:51]:
And rather than put my hands down, I let my face stop me. And so I just road rash, blooded up my face, knocked a couple of kids teeth out, and I go up and ring my doorbell and my mom answers the door to this mess. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, emergency room, all the stuff, all kinds of crazy things that I was always getting into. I was always outside, whether it was playing sports or, you know, doing things. I don’t know. But yeah. So that was a pretty pretty fun adventure that I remember vividly.

Jen Hamilton [00:30:27]:
I’m sure your mother does too. No mother wants to see them. No.

John Garrett [00:30:30]:
Crazy. Because, you know, I’m a parent, and I’m like, I can’t even imagine. Like, I would have been like, your daughter is you know, like, yours look what yours but she couldn’t even say that because my dad was away. So, like, he was stationed overseas for a bit. So it was like, oh, really? Come on now. Yeah. So just kind of a lot. So, yeah, looking back on it, it’s like, oh, man.

John Garrett [00:30:48]:
Like, I was you never know what John’s gonna get into or where he’s coming back from or what he’s doing type of thing. So well, thank you so much, Chen, for being a part of What’s Your Ann and just being a living example of this. It’s been so much fun.

Jen Hamilton [00:30:59]:
Thank you for having me and sharing your lightning round with me. It was fun to learn too.

John Garrett [00:31:03]:
Totally. I never know what questions are coming, so that’s why I love it so much. Everybody listening, if you wanna see some pictures of Jen sparring or maybe connect with her on social media, be sure to go to what’syourand.com. All the links are there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.