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Chris Alder [00:00:00]:
So hey there, I’m Chris Alder and when I’m not being a Zen priest and meditating, I am listening to John Garrett and his podcast What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:12]:
Welcome to episode 679 of What’s Your “And”?™. This is John Garrett and each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at www.WhatsYourAnd.com. The book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those and more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

John Garrett [00:01:05]:
And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast. You don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week and this week is no different with my guest, Chris Alder. He’s an executive coach and senior partner at Evolution out of Dunning, Scotland and now he’s with me here today. Chris, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Chris Alder [00:01:32]:
And really great to be here. John, thanks for inviting me.

John Garrett [00:01:35]:
Going to be a blast. I’m so excited for this. But I have 17 rapid fire questions. Get to know Chris right out of the gate here. So I’ll start easy. Favorite color?

Chris Alder [00:01:44]:
Favorite color? Green.

John Garrett [00:01:45]:
Green. Oh, okay, that’s a fun one. How about a least favorite color?

Chris Alder [00:01:49]:
Probably purple because I’m colorblind and I always think it’s blue. I struggle between blues and purples so I just stay clear of purple, right?

John Garrett [00:01:57]:
Yeah, okay, fair enough. How about a favorite concert of all time?

Chris Alder [00:02:01]:
Probably one in France. It was a rave I went to many years ago in an old coliseum. So you’re in like a 2000 year old Coliseum and it was like techno band of orb and a sort of techno dj and it was just wild because the atmosphere went in all directions so you could see the audience and feel the audience because you were in a circular bowl and, you know, the band was down the bottom. So. Yeah, blew my mind.

John Garrett [00:02:26]:
That’s amazing. You were the man in the arena. Like literally you were on the. Yeah, like the audience looking at me. Yeah, exactly right. You’re looking at yourself. Like everything. That’s.

John Garrett [00:02:37]:
Wow, that’s really cool. I like it. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Chris Alder [00:02:41]:
Oh my God, so many Keanu Reeves springs to mind.

John Garrett [00:02:45]:
Okay, yeah, no, and a good person off screen too.

Chris Alder [00:02:49]:
Exactly. That’s probably why as well.

John Garrett [00:02:51]:
I love it. Okay, how about toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Chris Alder [00:02:54]:
Oh, definitely over. Definitely. Do people go under? I didn’t think it was possible anymore. I thought they’d been out.

John Garrett [00:02:59]:
I think they’re psychopaths or apparently people with cats, I’ve been told. But again, psychopaths, because why would you have cats? I could hear all the tweets coming through right now. So chocolate or vanilla? Chocolate, definitely chocolate. Okay. All right. Puzzles you go. Sudoku, Crossword. Jigsaw puzzle.

John Garrett [00:03:21]:
I don’t know. Wordle. Now I don’t.

Chris Alder [00:03:23]:
I normally just play cards. Actually. I’m a sort of gin rummy fan. That’s one of my little phone. Yeah, Yeah. A few gin rummy tournaments and such like. Yeah, Something about that card game seems to get me.

John Garrett [00:03:33]:
Yeah, no, that’s as much of a puzzle as anything. How about Star wars or Star Trek?

Chris Alder [00:03:37]:
Probably Star wars, which I just introduced to my 7 year old daughter recently. It was so cool to like get the next generation into something. Like I’m not. I’m not a huge fan, but it was just part of my childhood. It was really cool to share.

John Garrett [00:03:48]:
Oh yeah, yeah. The original three. Where my. Yeah, I mean, I haven’t gone too much past that. How about your computer? More of a PC or a Mac?

Chris Alder [00:03:55]:
Definitely PC.

John Garrett [00:03:56]:
Yeah, I’m. I don’t think I’m cool enough to go into a Mac store. I know, exactly, exactly.

Chris Alder [00:04:02]:
That’s my wife’s department. I’ll leave it to.

John Garrett [00:04:05]:
Right, there you go. There you go. How about a favorite animal? Any animal?

Chris Alder [00:04:09]:
Any animal? I don’t know. Capoira springs to mind. I was traveling in Bolivia many years ago and you know, they’re the largest rat family, which don’t sound cute, but they’re really cute and it is beautiful creatures. And I think I ate some capoeira when I was there. So you know, they’re cute and tasty.

John Garrett [00:04:24]:
There you go. There you go. How about more talk or text?

Chris Alder [00:04:29]:
Probably text. Yeah. Bit of an introvert. I’m introvert. Extrovert, but probably introvert first.

John Garrett [00:04:34]:
Yeah, sure. All right. How about ice cream? I love ice cream. You go in a cup or in a cone.

Chris Alder [00:04:38]:
I’ll definitely cone if it’s a good quality cone.

John Garrett [00:04:41]:
Not.

Chris Alder [00:04:42]:
Not a cheap cone.

John Garrett [00:04:42]:
Right. Yeah, right. Exactly. There you go. There you go. We got standards around here. How about a favorite animated character? It could be Disney or whatever.

Chris Alder [00:04:51]:
Probably Family Guy. I’m a big fan of Family Guy. I think the humor is so funny. So any of the characters from that show. Probably Stewie being the favorite, you know?

John Garrett [00:04:59]:
Yeah, Stewie especially.

Chris Alder [00:05:01]:
You know, you can’t go wrong with that.

John Garrett [00:05:03]:
Right. How belligerent can a baby get? Well, very.

Chris Alder [00:05:07]:
Apparently, the English accent probably does it for me as well.

John Garrett [00:05:10]:
Right. There you go. And since you have the coaching profession. Group coaching or one to one coaching?

Chris Alder [00:05:16]:
Oh, I love both. I love the depth of one to one and the complexity of group coaching.

John Garrett [00:05:22]:
Okay, I’ll take it. I’ll take it. Three more. A favorite number?

Chris Alder [00:05:25]:
Favorite number 13, strangely enough, used to live at number 13. 13. And it was a really lucky place to live.

John Garrett [00:05:32]:
Oh, okay. All right. I like it. Pens or pencils?

Chris Alder [00:05:35]:
Oh, pens.

John Garrett [00:05:36]:
Definitely no mistakes. You’re just like, I’m there and it is.

Chris Alder [00:05:40]:
And I just scroll. No one can read my writing, so it doesn’t matter. Should have been a doctor.

John Garrett [00:05:46]:
And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Chris Alder [00:05:49]:
Oh, my God. Probably my Zen bowl, actually, bringing in the whole Zen thing, which we’re going to talk about. I’ve got a beautiful, big Zen bowl that you use in rituals, and the sound of it rings out for about a minute, and it’s exquisite.

John Garrett [00:05:59]:
Oh, wow.

Chris Alder [00:06:00]:
Yeah, I got it for my 40th birthday, actually. So, yeah, it has some sort of sentimental value there for that as well.

John Garrett [00:06:06]:
That’s very cool. Yeah. Well, that leads right into being a Zen priest. And I mean, that’s not something you do on accident. So how’d that get started, you know, like.

Chris Alder [00:06:15]:
Yeah, I mean, an interest in spirituality from quite a young age. A good friend of my mother’s was a crazy guy. He was pretty much a real life James Bond that was secret service, military, and, you know, learned to do remote viewing and those kind of things and kind of got me into that whole other dimension of the mind that most people don’t talk about. So it was kind of a Spiritual mentor to me as a kid. And then, yeah, at the age about 22, I did my first retreat in India up in Dharmasala where the Dalai Lama lives. And that, that really changed the trajectory of my life. Really?

John Garrett [00:06:48]:
Yeah. That’s wild. And what made you want to. Yeah, I mean, go to India and do that?

Chris Alder [00:06:54]:
Yeah, I think I was always a seeker. I was just like, I wanted to know more about, you know, culture and the Indian culture is fascinating anyway. And I knew when I was there I wanted to do a medit retreat. And you know, I was self medicating on marijuana for many years for many reasons. And that retreat included like 10 days of not doing that. And that really shifted something for me. That really helped me see that, you know, I can change the state of my mind without a substance. And I think that was, that was a turning point for me.

Chris Alder [00:07:25]:
So that was what I was searching for, but I didn’t know it until I got there.

John Garrett [00:07:28]:
Yeah, I mean, when I watched Ram Dass’s Becoming Nobody documentary, that was my entry into this whole world. And that was maybe three years ago or so. And yeah, that was his frustration. I mean, of course he was lsd, which is a different.

Chris Alder [00:07:41]:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

John Garrett [00:07:42]:
But yeah, because he would always crash back down. And then when he went, moved to India, I mean, he went all in and everything. All that. Yeah, but it was wild. And I’ve recommended that documentary to many people of like, it’s.

Chris Alder [00:07:54]:
The book is even better. Really nice.

John Garrett [00:07:56]:
Oh, wow. Okay. All right. Yeah, I mean, I’ve yeah, gone down all the rabbit holes now, so it’s, it’s pretty wild. But, but that’s, that’s cool. And so do you have any more rewarding stories from this journey from when you were 22 to today?

Chris Alder [00:08:11]:
Yeah, I mean, most of my 20s were just seeking and a lot of traveling. I was working as a chef. That was my old profession. So I’d sort of work intensely as a chef for a few months, save up, go traveling. And that normally included at least a week to sometimes even a month in a retreat center somewhere in the world. And you know, if I was in Mexico, I’d try and, you know, study some kind of Mexican tradition. If I was in Peru, I’d be into Peruvian shamanism. So it was a bit of a smorgasbord, bored of spirituality from around the world, which really piqued my interest.

Chris Alder [00:08:42]:
But I didn’t kind of settle down into one thing until about 12 years ago.

John Garrett [00:08:46]:
And what was that shift that made you want to finally Settle in.

Chris Alder [00:08:50]:
Yeah. I think it was just finding the right teacher that really spoke to me. And I was at an Integral Theory conference.

John Garrett [00:08:57]:
Kind of feeling in my head. It was a concert.

Chris Alder [00:08:59]:
Exactly.

John Garrett [00:09:00]:
The music in my head was amazing.

Chris Alder [00:09:01]:
And I know, you know, Integral Theory as well, because we’ve studied in the same coaching school. And there was a spiritual teacher there called Doshin Roshi, who was an intro integral Zen priest is what he called himself. So it really was a nice marriage of my sort of philosophical study and my coaching study with Zen. And he just. He just really got me. And he was selling an autobiography of his teacher, a guy called Jumpo, Dennis Kelly, who also had an LSD route into spirituality, and his autobiography really got me. Meeting Doshin and then reading Jumpo’s autobiography were the two things that were like, okay, these guys can teach me something. Like, there’s something here in this very traditional lineage that they’d upgraded for sort of the Western mind and the Western palette to make sure it helped us enter those states without all of the dogma and the rigidity of traditional Zen, but still with the essence not being lost.

John Garrett [00:09:57]:
That’s awesome. Yeah. Because, I mean, it’s. It’s one of those where, you know, in the journey, it feels like a roller coaster in Helter Skelter. And I don’t know what’s good, but looking backwards, it’s a straight line like, this had to happen for this, for this, for this, you know, and. And yeah, and what is it? The. The teacher appears when the student is ready, and there we go. So how do you feel like being a Zen priest or this.

John Garrett [00:10:20]:
This background impacts your work at all? Does it give you a skill or a mindset or anything?

Chris Alder [00:10:26]:
Definitely, but not when I was a chef. You know, when I was a chef, I really struggled and, you know, I was working kitchens and try and talk to someone about spirituality, other sort of catering staff. It didn’t go too well. I felt a bit of an out outsider. I was struggling to have those depths of connections and conversations. But then becoming a coach and training to be a coach and not leading with that because a lot of people get scared off by it. You know, drop in conversation on the Zen priest and they freak out a bit because I look fairly normal. But now as a coach, I can just weave it in more and more.

Chris Alder [00:11:00]:
And I think I’m almost leading with that as a coach now because I’m confident enough that that is my brand, you know, to be able to go that deep and hold that depth of mind with my clients. Is a real pull for them. But it’s taken a while to be that honest about it and to be able to lead with it in that way and not scare people off.

John Garrett [00:11:20]:
Yeah, that’s interesting because do you feel like that was in your head telling you that it’s going to scare people off or did you have actual proof of that happening?

Chris Alder [00:11:30]:
Yeah, great question. And obviously as a coach as well, getting to those assumptions underneath is what helps the transformation. Yeah, there were definitely some assumptions that it would scare people off. And I had to test the water for many years of just drip feeding and going, okay, that seems to work and that works. And oh, let’s try it a little bit more. Let’s shove a picture of me in my Zen ceremony when I had my head shaved off. Like, freak them out a little bit. Oh, they’re still coming back.

Chris Alder [00:11:54]:
Oh, that’s cool. So, yeah, it was a slow disintegration of all those assumptions I’ve made. And there is some cultural stigma around how woo woo spirituality can be. And even just bringing. I’ve got a little travels in Bell that I use when I facilitate a group and I get it out and I mainly use it just to get people’s attention. It’s a great way to just bring the room back from an exercise versus shouting. But I bring it out and look on some people’s faces. They’re like, oh my God, are we going to meditate? We’re going to be oming.

Chris Alder [00:12:25]:
And then I’m freaking out that I might be getting them to do something weird like that. And I’m like, no, I just hit it when I want you to shut up. Basically, that’s it.

John Garrett [00:12:38]:
Which might be how it all started, to be honest, thousands of years ago, but who knows? But yeah, but that is hilarious because there is that perception. But I love how now it’s your brand. Like, I mean, that’s your differentiator. You know, in the coaching world, there’s a lot of coaches and then even in the integral coaching space, which is another level that, you know, we both did and gone through, like, you know, that’s a differentiator within that. And yeah, it’s so true. And it is fun to be like, hey, we can go as deep and woo as you want, or we cannot, but. But when you lead with that, then it’s, hey, you’re going to get the right people that are going to want more of it. And I feel like so many of us, no matter what our professions, we hide these parts of ourselves that are the actual Differentiators, the brand identity.

John Garrett [00:13:25]:
Like, we bury. And it’s like, no, no, no. That should be on the door. Like, what are you doing? You know? But we trick ourselves to not want to stand out.

Chris Alder [00:13:35]:
These parts of ourselves are not acceptable. But. But they make us who we are. We can’t hide them. We really can’t.

John Garrett [00:13:40]:
And, I mean, that’s where a lot of the coaching comes in, is embracing all those sides of ourselves that we think no one wants. Yeah. And so I guess before you got into this, was there something else that you would share? Like, even in your chef days or things, were there other hands, if you will, that you would share beyond the Zen priest? Because obviously that’s a little deeper and tough to do in a catering situation, I suppose.

Chris Alder [00:14:07]:
Snowboarding. I was big into snowboarding for many years. That was my other. And that was such a big passion. And I worked in ski resorts for many winters, so I was combining. Combining the chefing and just basically cooking and snowboarding. And looking back, you know, I think it was raising. I mean, there’s even books on that, isn’t there? Like, Snowboarding to Nirvana was one of my favorite books back in the day, which is the zone you can get into in a sport like that, especially backcountry, you know, off piste in deep powder, and the silence of just, like, as you making these beautiful turns in the powder.

Chris Alder [00:14:44]:
Oh, my God. Yeah. It was such a passion of mine that, Yeah, I did talk about, but not as much, you know, in the sort of catering world.

John Garrett [00:14:52]:
Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And it’s fun just to see your face light up. I mean, you’re back there right now, you know, and whenever we talk about our. And it’s always awesome, you know, even the time where you wrecked and whatever, you know, it’s still. It was still amazing. That’s the thing, is that I feel like it’s our soul speaking through our hands, you know, and we try to silence that, but you can’t. That’s your essence.

John Garrett [00:15:19]:
I mean, that’s who you are. What you do is a different thing.

Chris Alder [00:15:22]:
Absolutely. And I think that kind of the essence and the link within all of that was just the adventuring nature of myself. Now, I’ve always been an adventurer. And talking about the snowboarding, I remember there’s one place in Chamonix where I used to work where you can hike up and you’re actually right on the border between France and Switzerland, and you drop into a valley at the back, and you’re dropping into Switzerland, and you have to take your Passport with you because there’s border control between Switzerland and France. And you hitchhike back because you’re a good half an hour drive away from where you started, and you basically snowboard backcountry into Switzerland to a different country and have to hitchhike back over the border. And, like, I love that, like, the adventuring nature in the world. And now my adventuring nature is in the unconscious and in the space of meditation. It’s like, it’s still an adventure.

Chris Alder [00:16:14]:
I’m still mapping it, I’m still exploring it. And that’s the soul kind of essence coming through in that.

John Garrett [00:16:21]:
I love that. That’s so awesome because, I mean, now it’s endless. I mean, you don’t need a passport, but you’re going way farther, way off.

Chris Alder [00:16:31]:
Beast, definitely, right?

John Garrett [00:16:33]:
Ye. That’s powerful. That’s really cool. You know, just to see that that part of you was there. And it started in the snowboarding across borders in Europe, which is such a cool story. I mean, how great is that, right? You know, but now it’s, you know, that was just the kiddie pool, if you will. And then now it’s grown to, you know, so much more. And it’s awesome to, you know, just to hear how, you know, stepping into your power and embracing that and.

John Garrett [00:16:59]:
And leaning into that and even more. And good things happen. It’s not like all your clients quit, you’re not allowed to coach anymore, you’ve lost your license. It’s all gone. It’s quite the opposite.

Chris Alder [00:17:13]:
It actually is. And the more and more I’m leading with it, the more I’m getting. Some senior tech entrepreneurs have started amazing companies that have sold them and are now like, what next? What’s the next adventure for me? You know, where do I want to get a new return on my investment? And, you know, and it’s that inner work. It’s really going within themselves, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, and then linking it to their next projects and what they’re actually doing in the world to make a difference. So, you know, the more I lead with it, the more I meet people that are just incredible in how they’re taking their passion into the world and sourcing themselves in spirit to do that.

John Garrett [00:17:53]:
Yeah. And I find so much that people lead with their head so much. And I’m sure a lot of these tech entrepreneurs, very intelligent, very driven, and it’s getting them to come to the heart more and just feel in the body and. Yeah, just remove the mind. Just take it out of your head for a minute. And just put it on the shelf and just be.

Chris Alder [00:18:16]:
See what else there is right here, right present, right now, that doesn’t have to be searched for or achieved in a traditional way, can be found. Can be found on the cushion.

John Garrett [00:18:27]:
And I feel like a lot of times our ands, when we’re doing them or we’re in them or we’re participating in them, that that’s where that also happens. It’s less of the mind. It’s unplugging. It’s just being in the moment. Just be as opposed to doing. I’m just being. And it’s. It’s such a natural, powerful thing.

John Garrett [00:18:48]:
And why do you think it is, then that we, I guess, tell ourselves that these things don’t matter or they’re distractions, or I should be focused more on the work side of me. Why do we put the best part of ourselves on the back burner? Why do you think that is?

Chris Alder [00:19:04]:
I think we’re all afraid, aren’t we? We’re culturally conditioned to believe that that’s not acceptable, yet we’re all saying that it is. And we all believe that it’s actually our essence. Yet it’s so crazy that no one stands up and goes that, like, can we stop this game? Like, time out. Like, what. What are the rules we’re playing by here? Can we. Like, they’re not working. But I think it’s coming. I think we’re.

Chris Alder [00:19:28]:
We’re getting close where people actually are realizing that everyone’s saying the same thing. When you actually have a deep conversation with someone, they’re not agreeing with the cultural norms yet the cultural norms keep going. It’s fascinating, isn’t it? The momentum of them are so strong that even if we’re all standing there going, this is crazy. It doesn’t change.

John Garrett [00:19:49]:
No, I mean, it blows my mind. I mean, when I started the podcast, it was, you know, I had someone remember me 12 years after I had left my first PWC office as the guy who did comedy at night. A guy who I had never met. I never worked with him. I never. I didn’t even know what he looked like. And he remembered me 12 years later. And so I started to ask people, hey, do you have a hobby? Like, and they’re like, yeah, but I don’t tell anybody about it.

John Garrett [00:20:12]:
And we all have things. Or. I mean, my research has shown 92%. So almost everyone has something. So we all have it, but then we’re not sharing it. So then it seems like no one has them. And so it’s like, no, no, no, no. We’re all doing awesome things, you know, outside of work and things that light us up.

John Garrett [00:20:30]:
And for us to deny the part that lights us up the most is crazy. And so that’s what this whole show’s about, is just, you know, lead with your. Like, what’s your. And I don’t even care about your job, to be honest. Talk about your. And let’s get into this, you know, type of stuff.

Chris Alder [00:20:46]:
That’d be great, wouldn’t it, one day if there was a board meeting and everyone introd because they were a new board or something and they had to lead first at the end, you know, be amazing. Wouldn’t it be amazing to set the context of a new team in that way?

John Garrett [00:20:58]:
I have some clients that they do that regularly where it’s, you know, I’m this, you know, I’m an executive vice president, and I love to go snowboarding. And people feel the pressure, though, that, you know, I wasn’t on the Olympic team or I wasn’t, you know, the Zenist of the Zen priests or whatever the, you know, a senior Zen priest, if you will, you know. But so that’s why I’ve. I’ve turned the phrase to just, I enjoy, I enjoy. And so then the pressure’s off, you know, like, it doesn’t matter. You’re doing it because you enjoy it, not because you know someone else. You need their approval or anything.

Chris Alder [00:21:33]:
As you say, it’s about that light, isn’t it? It’s what lights someone up. The light is the most important thing. And if the light comes from knitting and, you know, being really bad at it, great. Do it.

John Garrett [00:21:43]:
Right. I mean, exactly. I mean, as long as it brings you joy, then nail it, you know, go. Go crazy. And so do you feel like there’s any words of encouragement beyond that? Maybe that people that have an. And that they feel like no one’s going to care because it has nothing to do with my job.

Chris Alder [00:21:59]:
I think it’s so much about how you talk about something and not what you do, isn’t it? It’s like you can have the most boring hobby in the entire world, but if you’re passionate about it and you own that passion and you share that passion, people will reflect that light that you’re shining to them. I think it’s that simple, isn’t it? But if there’s any sort of fear or shame about what you do, then of course that person isn’t going to get excited about it because you’re going to be sharing it with the shame and the sort of hiding and the not owning it. So it’s like, whatever it is, own it. Own that. It gives you life, it gives you passion, it gives you light. Unashamedly. That’s one of my favorite words recently, is unashamedly. So that’s probably the shorter version.

Chris Alder [00:22:48]:
Unashamedly, own it.

John Garrett [00:22:49]:
Yeah, I love it. It reminds me, probably about seven years ago, I was speaking at a company event, and I just randomly asked who thinks they have the most boring. And I normally don’t do that, but I did for some reason, and a lady raised her hand and she said, it’s genealogy. Before I could even comment, a lady on the other side of the room yells out, that’s not boring. I do it too. And come to find out, they sat, like, three cubicles apart for years and had no idea that they both loved to do genealogy. And so I was like, I hope secretly that, like, you guys are like fourth cousins in the 1600s that, like, your trees connect and that you guys are related, because this would be my. Make a wish.

John Garrett [00:23:30]:
Like, that would be amazing. Because you’re right. I mean, to someone it might be boring, but to other people it’s not. And the way that you deliver it is infectious. I mean, if you’re jazzed about it, well, then, man, yeah, I want to know about this. All right, this is cool.

Chris Alder [00:23:48]:
How does it light you up? What is it about it? You know, all those follow on questions that you then get to ask that you learn so much about someone that I’m sure it then improves your working relationship with them because you just know them, you know what makes them tick.

John Garrett [00:24:01]:
Absolutely. And if it’s the same thing, that’s great. And even if it’s not the same thing, you can at least ask them about it. And, hey, I know you were going to a concert, or, hey, I know you were going on that snowboarding trip, or hey, I know you were going to India for that rich treat, you know, like. And then ask them about it.

Chris Alder [00:24:15]:
Exactly. Yeah. Learn something outside your comfort zone, something you would never normally learn about.

John Garrett [00:24:20]:
This has been so great, Chris. I. I feel like, though I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, and it would only be polite for me to turn the tables. Make this the Chris Alder podcast, and I’m your first guest. Thanks for booking me. Actually, I booked myself, so thanks for having me on.

Chris Alder [00:24:37]:
Welcome to my podcast, John.

John Garrett [00:24:41]:
Yeah.

Chris Alder [00:24:41]:
Yeah. Well, there’s a phrase that one of my coaching teachers came up with, which is whispers of the future. So I’m wondering what are your whispers of the future? What do you hear down the line for you that’s just starting to formulate, but it’s like you’re not quite hearing it yet. What’s next?

John Garrett [00:24:59]:
Oh, wow, this is deep. Yeah, I mean I feel like it’s probably more of a whispers of the present, but I’m acting like it’s in the future so that I have time. But I do feel, feel like this is a movement of sorts, you know, that this has always been our collective message. But it’s how to just take the guardrails off and have me take the foot off the brake and just let this go, Let it breathe and let it soar and let it be what it’s supposed to be in all of its magnitude and just let this grow and be bigger. Where what’s your hand becomes just normal phrasing that everybody knows, you know, it’s, it’s on par. It’s obviously very different than cynics. Why. But everybody knows that.

John Garrett [00:25:48]:
And so it’s, it’s where it becomes on par with that, you know, where it’s, it’s just making that difference. And, and yeah, and board meetings start with, you know, your title and your, and and you know, department meetings and all this, you know, like when you merge in a new company, it’s, it’s all part of the thing. So you know, where this just becomes the norm that if an organization is interviewing someone, they ask them, hey, what’s your aunt? And if you don’t have one, well then you probably shouldn’t work here because we have well rounded people here that we like to make sure are happy and are living their best life. And if all work all the time is your thing, well then maybe not here type of thing where this is the norm.

Chris Alder [00:26:29]:
Shifting the culture, basically. Shifting the work culture to make it more human.

John Garrett [00:26:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean that’s what this is all about. And so it’s, yeah, me getting out of the way and let it be what it’s what it’s supposed to be. I’m being a protector, I guess, for my own message in a weird way which is very meta talking to two coaches talking about this. But yeah, yeah. So the protector self is the self that’s protecting the message. That’s dumb. So get out of the way, you know, let this be.

John Garrett [00:26:59]:
Well, thank you so much, Chris for being a part of what’s your. And this has been so much fun.

Chris Alder [00:27:02]:
I’ve loved it as well. Thank you for having me. Great conversation. Really appreciate it.

John Garrett [00:27:09]:
Absolutely. And everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Chris outside of work or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to www.WhatsYourAnd.com all the links are there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button. Do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture and don’t forget to check out out the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple podcasts or whatever app you use, and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.