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John Garrett [00:00:00]:
Hey, this is John Garrett. I’m passionate about making work more human, especially in this age of AI. I don’t just host this podcast, I also help organizations put people first. Through my keynote speaking, coaching and What’s Your “And”?™ implementation programs. To learn more or to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, I invite you to join the movement at www.WhatsYourAnd.com. Now let’s jump into this week’s conversation.

Alvin Hartono [00:00:21]:
Hey, this is Alvin and when I’m not gaming, I’m listening to John Garrett on What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:32]:
Welcome to episode 721 of What’s Your “And”?. This is John Garrett and each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find there and those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are www.whatsyourand.com. The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such nice reviews on Amazon.

John Garrett [00:01:33]:
Thank you so much for those, and more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice, reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast. You don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, Alvin Hartono. He’s a program manager at Google and the founder of Snippet and also acts as an AI consultant. But the real one’s here with me now.

John Garrett [00:02:04]:
Alvin, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Alvin Hartono [00:02:08]:
Yeah, thank you for having me on. Wow. I just want to say you have such a great podcast voice.

John Garrett [00:02:13]:
Oh, thanks man. It actually sounds a little bit like Super Dave Osborne for anybody that’s a little bit older and knows who that was where it’s like, is that guy going to hit puberty? Like at Any second. And the answer is. Yeah, I probably will. Like, it’s like screech, right? Like, no, but thanks, man. Well, let’s get to know Alvin out of the gate here. 17 rapid fire questions. How about a favorite color?

Alvin Hartono [00:02:34]:
Oh, my favorite color has to be blue. It’s very calm. You can even see a little bit of behind me. But, like, my. The color of my room growing up was also, like a very, very blue room.

John Garrett [00:02:44]:
No, I’m a big fan. Also, how about a least favorite color?

Alvin Hartono [00:02:47]:
Oh, I have to say yellow, I think. It’s just so sharp, kind of. It almost hurts my eyes.

John Garrett [00:02:52]:
Yeah, a little too bright. Like, dial it down, you know? Calm down. Yeah, yeah. How about a least favorite vegetable?

Alvin Hartono [00:02:59]:
There’s this dish in. I don’t know what it is in English, but it’s called gailon. I don’t like it. It’s. It’s just something I don’t.

John Garrett [00:03:05]:
I already don’ like it and I don’t even know what it is, so I’m in. Like, it’s good.

Alvin Hartono [00:03:10]:
The only thing that makes it taste good is the oyster sauce.

John Garrett [00:03:12]:
Oh, wow. Okay. And one of those. Yeah, yeah. How about puzzles? Sudoku, Crossword, Jigsaw puzzle?

Alvin Hartono [00:03:18]:
Wordle. I’m actually really into, like, these exit games that you can buy. So there’s like the escape rooms, but you buy them in a box and you can actually solve them in person with a group. It’s kind of like a puzzle, and you kind of figure out, like, okay, there’s clues, and you kind of make your way to the end of it, which is really cool. So I’ve been getting into those lately.

John Garrett [00:03:37]:
That cool? I hadn’t heard of those. Nice. I like it. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Alvin Hartono [00:03:42]:
I want to say Henry Cavill, only because he was the star of the Witcher, which is a series I really like. It’s actually a video game I really enjoy as well. And I named my dog after him.

John Garrett [00:03:52]:
Oh, well, then here you go. I don’t think we need any more validation than that. Done and done. I love it. How about toilet paper roll? You go over or under?

Alvin Hartono [00:04:01]:
Oh, always over. Although I have been caught accidentally putting it under and being called out for it.

John Garrett [00:04:10]:
You’ve learned.

Alvin Hartono [00:04:10]:
I’ve learned. I’ve definitely learned. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Garrett [00:04:12]:
There you go. Are you more early bird or night owl?

Alvin Hartono [00:04:15]:
I’m a night owl. Definitely a night owl. Can’t wake up in the morning. I’m usually pretty sluggish. I could stay up all night easily, no problem.

John Garrett [00:04:22]:
I guess that’s probably why you can’t wake up in the morning. It’s probably that part of it, like staying up all night. That explains it.

Alvin Hartono [00:04:28]:
No, you’re right. You’re probably right. You’re probably right.

John Garrett [00:04:30]:
But that’s when you operate. That’s cool, man. How about a Star wars or Star Trek?

Alvin Hartono [00:04:35]:
Star Wars. Only because I don’t know too much about Star Trek. I only know the hand signal. A pretty okay Star wars fan. I actually just went to Disneyland, saw the Star wars section. It was super cool. It blew me away.

John Garrett [00:04:48]:
Is that the one? I’ve seen pictures where it’s like the full on Millennium Falcon kind of thing.

Alvin Hartono [00:04:52]:
Oh yeah. It’s huge. And it looks super realistic. I took a fun photo in front of it, just pointing at it and like a size comparison. It’s awesome.

John Garrett [00:05:00]:
That’s awesome, man. That’s super cool. How about your computer? More PC or Mac?

Alvin Hartono [00:05:04]:
For work I use Mac, but for gaming and everything else I use a PC. I actually like learn how to build it myself too. So yeah, I’m PC all the way.

John Garrett [00:05:12]:
Nice. Okay. Yeah. Because I guess you can’t really build your own Mac now that I just thought about that.

Alvin Hartono [00:05:17]:
Yeah. Not really. Not that I know of. There probably are some people who do, but not me.

John Garrett [00:05:22]:
How about ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Alvin Hartono [00:05:25]:
Oh, always cup. And I think it’s because it seems like they always give you a little bit more if it’s in a cup. And I’m bang for buck kind of guy, so I just want more ice cream.

John Garrett [00:05:36]:
I feel you. How about a favorite cartoon? Maybe as a kid I really enjoyed

Alvin Hartono [00:05:40]:
watching Pokemon growing up. But there’s a show that really stuck with me and I’ve now watched it three times. It’s called Avatar the Last Airbender. The first one is the best one. I think Aang is the main character. I love that. I’ve watched that so many times now. It never gets old.

John Garrett [00:05:55]:
That’s great. How about your first concert? I love going to concerts.

Alvin Hartono [00:05:59]:
So I want to say it was actually a Pokemon orchestra symphony kind of thing. I went with like that. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:06:07]:
Okay, that makes sense.

Alvin Hartono [00:06:08]:
Played the movie in the background and then the orchestra would actually play the music as the movie played, which is really cool. I remember that. It’s a pretty distinct memory.

John Garrett [00:06:17]:
That’s really cool. How about. Do you have a favorite day of the week?

Alvin Hartono [00:06:21]:
Favorite day of the week has to be Saturday. I don’t work on Saturday so I can sleep in, which is fantastic. And I don’t have the Sunday scaries yet, so. So I can like truly relax.

John Garrett [00:06:32]:
There you go. That’s super honest. How about a favorite number?

Alvin Hartono [00:06:36]:
Probably eight. I just feel like. And I don’t know which cultures but I feel like that’s a pretty good lucky number. So I’m going to go with that one.

John Garrett [00:06:44]:
No, no, it works for me, man. How about a favorite season? Summer, winter, spring or fall?

Alvin Hartono [00:06:49]:
I’d probably say summer. So I live in Vancouver and it’s like always raining except for the summer. So I like sunshine. And yeah, summer’s the only time we really get it.

John Garrett [00:06:59]:
That makes sense. This is a fun one. Somebody asked me a long time ago and I think it’s hilarious. Socks or shoes? Take it however you want, man. Like.

Alvin Hartono [00:07:08]:
Like socks or shoes without socks.

John Garrett [00:07:11]:
The way I took it was like, you know, fancy socks, like with fun socks. Or like I’m into shoes or you know, sneaker collection or whatever. Like socks or shoes.

Alvin Hartono [00:07:19]:
Got it. Well, I’m going to go with shoes mostly because I have these like Skecher slip on shoes for. They’re supposed to be for older folks. You don’t have to actually tie your shoes, untie your shoes. Like I don’t even have to bend down. It’s good for my back. I just slip them on. It’s so easy.

John Garrett [00:07:35]:
That’s great.

Alvin Hartono [00:07:36]:
I’m sold. I’m a shoes guy now. I only buy sketchers.

John Garrett [00:07:39]:
Yeah, I love it. In the last one, the favorite thing you have and the favorite thing you own and it might be your Skechers, I don’t know, maybe that’s probably a close second.

Alvin Hartono [00:07:47]:
A very close second. And that’s changed my life. Probably my favorite thing I own. So I’m into gaming and there’s this thing called the Legion Go. Actually before that I had a Steam deck, which is probably my favorite thing before. But basically it’s like a gaming handheld. It’s a PC. PC but in handheld form.

Alvin Hartono [00:08:03]:
So think like Nintendo Switch, but like you can have Windows or Linux run on it. It’s super cool. So now I have a more powerful version. It’s called the Legion Go. Can play all my games on it. So yeah, favorite thing I own is my baby.

John Garrett [00:08:14]:
That’s awesome. Well, that leads right into gaming. Did you grow up gaming or is this something that you got into later?

Alvin Hartono [00:08:21]:
Yeah, I grew up gaming. So I remember like years and years ago my very first game and I still remember buying it. It was at like a. An eevee games here was Pokem Gold and it’s so Old, it’s like the second generation. So for all those Pokemon fans out there, they’ll know what I’m talking about. It was super cool. It was on the Game Boy color. And so I played that since I was young.

Alvin Hartono [00:08:45]:
And I played like a bunch of games since then. Like today I still game a lot too, but I think the types of games have drastically changed these days. So I think gaming back then, gaming now is so different. But yeah, I’ve been playing. I’ve been playing all my life.

John Garrett [00:08:57]:
And how would you describe it? I mean I’m. I remember getting the original. Any s. So the original Nintendo, like Super Mario Brothers slash Duck Hunt cartridge with the nes, I actually still have it, which is crazy with surround sound. But it sucks because the flat screen TVs, you can’t do Duck Hunt anymore because they’re for the old school TVs. It’s crazy that you can’t. And also there’s like one cartridge now that has, I don’t know, 100 games or more, 500 games because it just holds so many more megabytes or whatever it is, which is wild. So I’m super og and then there was of course Sega and whatever.

John Garrett [00:09:35]:
But like, how do you think gaming now is? I mean, well, first of all, it’s on a PC I guess. But how else is it different?

Alvin Hartono [00:09:41]:
I think games back then, just like they’re pure fun and joy. Like they didn’t really have to handhold you. I guess. Like there were no tutorials at least back then. Like you. Like that’s okay if I think Mario back then. Yeah, it was hard. Like it was really hard to get a high score or to finish the level sometimes.

Alvin Hartono [00:09:58]:
Maybe because I was young, but they didn’t tell you how to do anything. Like you press A to jump or you hold B to run. Like you just figured that out as you pressed a bunch of buttons and just did things right. So I think there’s like a really nice. There’s. It’s almost like quite beautiful. Where as a child, especially when I was like developing. I think this applies to a lot of like my gamer friends too that kind of develop like a.

Alvin Hartono [00:10:21]:
Almost like a way to keep trying new things. Like you’re quite resilient to different things. And just because like you’re always trying things, you’re restarting over. Getting game overs all the time doesn’t teach you anything. But you just keep getting better and better at it, just bit by bit. Right where I feel like gaming nowadays, there are a ton of great games that still do that to this day. Like indie games especially, but a ton of like the larger games, like there’s a lot of tutorials. It kind of teaches you how to do everything, which is great on its own.

Alvin Hartono [00:10:46]:
But I think like I say psychology and neuroscience and there’s a lot of like behavior that goes into like how it’s like gamified almost that keeps you addicted. Almost like kind of. I play this other like mobile game. It’s like a Pokemon trading card game where every day you have to log in and do daily, which are basically quests you have to do every day just for a small reward. It’s unhealthy, but I still do it because it is addicting. Like it makes me log in every single day to do this one thing. It works, right? So I think gaming is a little bit different these days. Again, it’s all great.

Alvin Hartono [00:11:19]:
I think it’s kind of changing how I think at least gaming is back then.

John Garrett [00:11:23]:
Yeah, I mean you’re right though. Like, I mean, I guess there was like Nintendo Power magazine or whatever. But like, yeah, you just got a game and you just, just figured it out, you know, you just tried it, you tried new things, you tried whatever. And nowadays, I mean they’re significantly more sophisticated. It’s a lot of real life type things I feel like. And you know, 3D views and, and whatever where all that was two dimensional. You’re watching the character, you’re not in the character’s eyes or whatever. And that’s so awesome, man.

John Garrett [00:11:48]:
I mean that you’ve made that, that journey and still dabble back in the old school a little bit too, you know, which is fun. Oh yeah, that’s cool. And so do you have like. Well, you mentioned earlier some favorite games that you’ve done or some over the years that have been some of your favorites?

Alvin Hartono [00:12:04]:
Yeah, like over the years, like it’s funny, like that’s how I got into my career and like why I love computers so much is I used to play this game. Okay. Before that I played this game called Runescape. So again for those out there who play it, they’ll know that you actually customize like how you chat. So like there’s a bunch of people who play online back in the day. It’s one of those old games that you could actually. Maybe one of the first games that you could actually like talk to other people.

John Garrett [00:12:28]:
Oh, okay.

Alvin Hartono [00:12:28]:
Yeah. And it’s all just like on a web browser. And what was cool about it is to express yourself, you know, only like, I mean it’s like, put on armor and stuff. But you type in the chat, but you can actually customize how it displayed. Like, you do, like, open bracket, wave, close bracket. And then the text would, like, show up as a wave. Right. Like, it’s almost like HTML css.

Alvin Hartono [00:12:50]:
And that was kind of cool. Like, it was like a way to customize, like, how something looked. Yeah. And then after that, I played this game called Maple Story, which again, is like an online game. You play with a bunch of other people. You have classes that you, like, you kind of work towards, let’s say. Like, I was an archer, which for my first class, I really bad. Like, I don’t know, I kind of got into, like, hacking and, like, automating, like, tasks I would do in the game just to, like, help me level up faster, which reached the.

Alvin Hartono [00:13:17]:
Like, I wasn’t supposed to do that, but, like, I got really into it. I learned how, like, okay, the files work. Like, how you can actually, like, edit different pieces of code, like, as a young kid too. So, yeah, it was really interesting. Like, learning all of that kind of, like, mixed my love for, like, gaming, but also, like, learning at the same time of, like, how computers or programs worked, which was really cool. So.

John Garrett [00:13:37]:
And that’s got to be a skill set that translates to work. I mean, you know, the curiosity and the learning and the trial and error and all that from gaming. I mean, you know, it didn’t. Like you said earlier. I mean, it. It naturally fed you into this career on accident, you know. And so how much do you feel like gaming does translate to work?

Alvin Hartono [00:13:57]:
Like, very much so. I want to say I think it was one of the things actually that helps me get the jobs that I’ve gotten. So a lot of the times when I’m interviewing, I mentioned that I used to not mention that, actually out of a little bit of embarrassment, but now I always mention it. And I think it’s been one of the things that, like, I guess makes me stand out a little bit. So an example is I love how, like, nowadays there are really strong tutorials. Like, like, games are so complex now. Like, you need a tutorial. You need like a.

Alvin Hartono [00:14:26]:
I want to say, an onboarding experience into the video game. Like, how to actually do things right. And so. And what I do and what I specialize in is exactly that is actually like making killer onboarding experiences for users, depending on the product I’m working on. So I always lead with that. And it’s always helped me because I always like to think of, like, okay, if I was treating this product as a game. How would I want to learn step by step and actually achieve something? Almost like I’m leveling up. Right.

Alvin Hartono [00:14:55]:
So yeah, like it’s translate really well. Like, I think, I think it’s a really cool thing. I like, I talk about it with a lot of co workers. I think over the past years too. Like, I’ve made a lot of friends at work because I game. So. Yeah, like, I think some of the smartest people I know are all gamers as well.

John Garrett [00:15:10]:
That’s incredible. And I’d like to go back just a minute where you, you said, you know, you didn’t share it in the past, you know, and out of embarrassment. And I feel like a lot of that’s in our own mind. Yeah. Would you agree? Like, I mean the embarrassment was yourself judging yourself. And then when you did share it, like, how’d that go? Like, what’s the difference now? Like you said, now you’re getting the projects, you’re getting the jobs, you’re getting the things that maybe in the past you didn’t. You know, I think it was like

Alvin Hartono [00:15:36]:
a realization that like, I think like a lot of people grew up with it and I think, I don’t know if that’s like a generational thing or if it’s. It’s just like finding commonality, which I think really helps some like, interviews. I remember one interview, one guy was saying like, hey, like igame too, what’s your favorite game? And we started talking about it for like the last half of the interview actually.

John Garrett [00:15:56]:
Yeah.

Alvin Hartono [00:15:57]:
So I was like making a connection like really easily just because it’s like, it’s such a big interest that so many people in the world have and just something to talk about. Right. So like it kind of speaks to the type of not just an employee, me as an employee, but me as a person. Like, would I enjoy working with this person too? So we have a lot to talk about. I think I felt embarrassed at first. Like, I think it was all in my head. But I think there is at the time, I believe there is this misconception of like, oh, it’s just like, it’s kind of lame, you know, like, like gamer is not very cool. But like, I think like these days, like so many people do, is it probably like the biggest, one of the biggest industries out there now and it’s cool to be a gamer and I love that like that’s online communities.

Alvin Hartono [00:16:38]:
It’s all. Is a lot of it’s about gaming.

John Garrett [00:16:40]:
Yeah. And I mean especially in the Tech world, I mean, where you operate, you know, like, I mean that’s. Yeah, for sure, man. I mean it’s normal, you know, and even if somebody doesn’t like to game, they see you alive and like super jazzed, like, you know, talking about this game, it’s like, I don’t know what game he’s talking about, but I think I want to check it out. It’s like the opposite of your vegetable where I don’t even want to try it. Like I don’t even, you know, just because you sold it so well, you know, where you’re selling the gaming, it’s like, yeah, I’m super excited about this is my thing. And it’s cool to see humans fully activated, you know, like, hey, this is what lights me up. Okay, that matters, you know, and then if somebody else does it too, well, now we’re friends, like on accident, you know, like that’s a cool thing, man.

John Garrett [00:17:21]:
And do organizations you’ve been at, do they encourage sharing these ands or is there beyond the interview, is there any ways that you’ve seen out there in the world of people sharing their hands or having some sort of structure to it than it happening accidentally?

Alvin Hartono [00:17:37]:
I think some of my favorites have been like competitions in the office. There’s a game called Super Smash Bros. Oh yeah. And it’s like on the GameCube on the Wii now it’s on the switch as well. But like I think almost every company I’ve been at has hosted like a tournament where you come in, you’d enter and I mean, I suck, I’m not that good at the game. But it’s just fun, right? Like you join the roster, you see who you’re up against and it’s just a good time. Like it’s a very social thing that people do. And even if you’re not good at it, like non gamers will try it and have a good time.

Alvin Hartono [00:18:09]:
So I think that’s probably one of my favorites. And then I mean like even like slack channels or in teams and stuff, there’s always like a dedicated gaming channel where people like post trailers or just have discussions about like what’s coming up or what they’re playing right now. It’s just fun. Like it’s like an easy way to meet people, even virtually. Like even in a remote work setting. Like I found that like one of the best ways to like connect with people, like to the point where some have like offers like, hey, we should play together, this new game’s coming out and we would, we Would add each other. We tried playing together. It’s like, it’s a good time.

Alvin Hartono [00:18:42]:
So, yeah, I think it’s a social. I think it’s a very social thing.

John Garrett [00:18:45]:
Yeah. Well, especially in the remote work where, you know, the connection can feel lost or no connection at all. So it’s like, at least it’s, you know, some genuine human connection on a human level anyway. And then you accidentally run into each other at a conference or at an internal thing. You know, the one time you all fly together and get together, then, man, that’s super magic. Because it’s like, what? No, no. You know, like, type of thing. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:19:08]:
Which is cool, you know. That’s incredible, man. I love it. So do you have any words of encouragement to anybody that, you know, maybe a younger you or somebody listening that has an an. That feels like it doesn’t matter because it has nothing to do specifically with their job?

Alvin Hartono [00:19:22]:
I would have to say own your passions. I think what I wished I did earlier, like, younger me, was like, really, like, kind of like how much I enjoyed it to people and like, not really worry about, like, what other people think. Like, I think something that I really am proud of these days is like. Like, I try to. Whenever I meet someone new, one thing I always ask or I always get asked is like, oh, so what do you do for work? But I try to avoid that. Now there’s this thing that I tried doing where I would actually say, like, so what do you like to do outside of work? Or like, what are your hobbies? And that’s like the first thing I ask. Like, it’s not that I don’t care about what you do for work, but I feel like there’s this preconception of like, oh, I kind of learn the type of person you are immediately based on your job, your day job, but you spend most of your day. I mean, I hope most people spend most of the day doing things that they actually enjoy outside of their 9 to 5, for example, or whatever that is they do for work.

Alvin Hartono [00:20:13]:
So I focus on that, and that’s something that people are passionate about talking about. So, like, I’d rather learn more about that. Like, for example, someone could be like a father, have kids, they love rowing, for example, and I want to hear about that. That’s way more exciting than what they do to five. Right. So, ye. I think just own that. Right.

Alvin Hartono [00:20:33]:
Like, I think that’s a much better, at least in my opinion, to, let’s say, even network or social. Socialize with.

John Garrett [00:20:38]:
Yeah, I mean, even in a Social setting. And I love that you’re doing that, you know, because you want to know the human. You don’t want to know, like, the surface level, because, I mean, really, when you think about it, your job identity is 10 or 15% of who you are. I mean, there’s a good 85 plus percent of you that we. We abandon because we let our job title just consume who we are. And it’s like, you know, you’re not a programmer, you’re a. That does programming, or you’re not an accountant, you’re a human being that does, you know, or whatever it is. Like, but we allow the job title to be our identity, and it’s not that.

John Garrett [00:21:12]:
And, you know. Yeah, and I love how you were like, yeah, I mean, I’d rather hear about, like, you’d rather hear about their and. And they’d rather talk about their and, you know, so let’s see you light up first. And I promise we’ll accidentally talk about work. It’ll just happen. But let’s not start there, you know, because that’s lame. So cool, man. I love you’re doing it already.

John Garrett [00:21:33]:
Well, that’s so cool. Well, it’s been so great having you be a part of this. I feel like it’s only fair, though, since I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, that we turn this around. We make this the Alvin Hartono podcast or whatever you want for your music. So I’m in the hot seat. I’m all yours. Whatever you want. Whatever you want to ask.

Alvin Hartono [00:21:54]:
Yeah, I mean, outside of podcasting, like, what would you say is your aunt? Like, how did you even get into this?

John Garrett [00:22:00]:
I mean, I love college football. I love going to concerts, play the piano a little bit. Love to travel all over the world. Definitely all those things. If you said I couldn’t do that again, that would really hurt. That would be like, oh, man. Well, I mean, why are we here? Like, type of thing. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:22:15]:
So the way it all started was I was speaking at a conference, and I was in big four PricewaterhouseCoopers, and I had done standup comedy just for fun at night. I just started it as a hobby after starting at PwC, because it was a different part of my brain. It was a fun creative, but it was challenging kind of a puzzle. Like, there’s a science to it as well, and you’re just learning. And so 12 years after that, I was speaking and a guy went up to the meeting planner and said, I know John Garrett. That’s the guy who did comedy at night. And so she came up to me and tells me this. And his name was Mark Bumgarner.

John Garrett [00:22:49]:
And I had never met Mark in my life. He was in the tax floor of the tax department. Like, I never went to that floor. I don’t know how taxes work. I never met mark. Yet 12 years later he remembered me and he didn’t remember me for anything that was on my resume. That was really, really awesome, you know, work related. He remembered this hobby I did for fun.

John Garrett [00:23:09]:
And that’s the thing, people are going to remember the gaming side of you. They’re not going to remember, you know, unless you like, do something epic and like crash something like a massive outlier pro or con. But most of us aren’t that, you know, we’re just normal people. So that’s really how this started, was just, you know, like I started then asking people, do you have a hobby outside of work? And then they were like, yeah. And almost 92% now, my research shows, have hobbies outside of work. And that means that 92% of all the people that we work around have something else that lights them up and we don’t even know. And it could be the same thing or it could be something else totally random. But man, I want to hear you talk about this, you know.

John Garrett [00:23:50]:
And so that’s really how it all started was this. And then now the book and keynote speaking and all this, you know, and then now I have a connected culture system, like a diagnostic and like how to really just help leaders see, hey, it matters to care about your people, like as humans, not just the output. So I don’t know if that answered your question. Hopefully it did. I love it.

Alvin Hartono [00:24:11]:
I love it.

John Garrett [00:24:12]:
I’m a terrible person.

Alvin Hartono [00:24:14]:
Fantastic. What has been your favorite travel destination?

John Garrett [00:24:17]:
I’ve been fortunate enough to go, like the Maldives was pretty, pretty incredible. Anything Indian Ocean, I’m down, like went to Bali as well, the Indian Ocean part of Bali. We also spent time in the middle of Bali and that was cool for the waterfalls and all that. It’s just fascinating, like the different ways of, of living and just, you know, the commonalities we have, but also the differences. But then, yeah, it’s just fascinating to me of how, how really alike we all are at the end of the day. So anything Indian Ocean, I’m down with pretty much. That’s the easy answer.

Alvin Hartono [00:24:50]:
That’s so cool. I love traveling to you. That’s like probably my second passion of mine. I actually spent some time being a digital nomad, quote unquote. So I Spent, like, several months in, like, the Iberian coast, like, Spain, Portugal, and just worked from there. It was beautiful. Like, finally got a lot of sunshine during the day and worked in the evening, so it was fantastic. But, yeah, my.

Alvin Hartono [00:25:13]:
My favorite travel destination just has to be Japan. Like, I love Jap going there.

John Garrett [00:25:16]:
I haven’t been yet.

Alvin Hartono [00:25:16]:
Oh, yeah. You’ve got to. Like, the food is amazing. Like, if I could go every year, I would.

John Garrett [00:25:22]:
Nice. Okay. All right. Well. Yeah, well, let’s do it. There we go. Like, we’re going on the road, everybody. We’re gonna have a travel show.

John Garrett [00:25:29]:
Like, it’s a game and eat and all that. Like, it’ll be fun.

Alvin Hartono [00:25:35]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Garrett [00:25:37]:
Do you have another one?

Alvin Hartono [00:25:39]:
Is there any hobby that you picked up but you kind of had a challenge? It’s kind of challenging that you got frustrated with you maybe even almost dropped it?

John Garrett [00:25:47]:
Yeah. So during COVID I guess I picked up just rowing with a rower. You know, the Concept 2 rower. And because I’m not a. Like, I’m tall and skinny and I look like I should be a rower or runner. And I hate running, like, and I’ve never rode. Like, I’m not a rower, like, but I liked it for a while because it’s efficient. It’s like 15 to 20 minutes, full body cardio, like, all that.

John Garrett [00:26:11]:
But then it, you know, it’s not a passion of mine. Like, I was just doing, like, it was fun. I would listen to something on double speed and, you know, kind of knock two things out and whatever, but. But I had to have, like, an app connected to it where it made it look like I was in a boat rowing. So the. Like, I needed the video to go with this so it doesn’t feel like I’m just sitting in my room staring at nothing, you know, type of thing. So. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:26:36]:
So, I mean, rowing would definitely be like. I haven’t done it in months, and I should probably just put the rower away or sell it or something, but. Or get back on it. Maybe that’s what you’re trying to tell me. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you so much, Alvin, for being a part of What’s Your “And”? and just being a living example of what this is all about.

Alvin Hartono [00:26:54]:
Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for having me here. And this is a pleasure.

John Garrett [00:27:00]:
Absolutely. And everybody listening. If you want to see some pictures of Alvin or connect with him on social media, be sure to go to www.WhatsYourAnd.com. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button. Do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to check out the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple podcasts or whatever app you use, and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread. That who you are is so much more than what you do.