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John Garrett [00:00:00]:
Hey, this is John Garrett. I’m passionate about making work more human, especially in this age of AI. I don’t just host this podcast, I also help organizations put people first through my keynote speaking, coaching and What’s Your “And”? implementation programs. To learn more or to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, I invite you to join the movement at WhatsYourAnd.com. Now let’s jump into this week’s conversation.

Joe Woodard [00:00:27]:
Hi, this is Joe Woodard and when I’m not hiking, I’m listening to John Garrett on What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:33]:
Welcome to episode 729 of What’s Your “And”?. This is John Garrett and each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award winning book on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at WhatsYourAnd.com. The book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those, and more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

John Garrett [00:01:27]:
And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for what’s yous and on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week and this week is no different with my guest Joe Woodard. He’s the CEO of Woodard out of Atlanta, Georgia and now he’s with me here today. Joe, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Joe Woodard [00:01:51]:
I’m excited to be here, John.

John Garrett [00:01:54]:
This is going to be so much fun. Talking, hiking. I live in Colorado so I do some hiking as well. I feel like you’re on another level, but it’ll be great. But I have some 17 rapid fire questions. Get to know Joe right out of the gate here. I’ll start you with maybe an easy one. Your computer, PC or A Mac.

Joe Woodard [00:02:09]:
That’s a Mac.

John Garrett [00:02:10]:
Mac. Oh, fancy. Okay. I did not see that coming. I really did not.

Joe Woodard [00:02:14]:
I was a PC guy. Did you?

John Garrett [00:02:15]:
I did. I’m a PC guy. Because I’m not. I can’t even go to a Mac store. Like, they won’t let me in. I’m not that cool. How about ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Joe Woodard [00:02:25]:
I am a cup guy.

John Garrett [00:02:27]:
Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah. Keep it clean. How about your favorite cartoon as a kid?

Joe Woodard [00:02:32]:
Bugs Bunny.

John Garrett [00:02:33]:
Oh, nice. Yes. It’s so good.

Joe Woodard [00:02:37]:
And it’s the classical music that everything was over the top.

John Garrett [00:02:41]:
Everything. How about your first concert?

Joe Woodard [00:02:44]:
My first concert was Elton John.

John Garrett [00:02:46]:
Elton John. Nice.

Joe Woodard [00:02:48]:
Yeah. If your listeners don’t know, I’m 58, so you’re starting to figure it out. Except that I use a Mac because a lot of 58 year old people use a PC. All right. Right.

John Garrett [00:02:59]:
You’re good. I love it. How about a favorite day of the week?

Joe Woodard [00:03:01]:
Saturday.

John Garrett [00:03:03]:
Saturday, yeah, that makes sense. How about since you have play in the accounting space, I’ll ask you a balance sheet or income statement?

Joe Woodard [00:03:09]:
I’m balance sheet guy.

John Garrett [00:03:11]:
Oh, really?

Joe Woodard [00:03:11]:
Yeah. Income statement tells you part of the story. The balance sheet’s the whole story.

John Garrett [00:03:15]:
There you go. Okay. All right. How about a favorite number?

Joe Woodard [00:03:18]:
7?

John Garrett [00:03:19]:
Is there a reason?

Joe Woodard [00:03:20]:
My faith journey. It’s a very important number.

John Garrett [00:03:23]:
Okay, very good. How about favorite season? Summer, winter, spring or fall? This is big for a hiker.

Joe Woodard [00:03:28]:
Yeah, I like fall.

John Garrett [00:03:31]:
Fall, Yeah, I was gonna say that.

Joe Woodard [00:03:32]:
Seems like the leaves are beautiful when you’re hiking through the mountains in the fall. Your east coast mountains, they’re kind of always green on the west.

John Garrett [00:03:38]:
Yeah, yeah. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Joe Woodard [00:03:42]:
No, Trek. 100%.

John Garrett [00:03:45]:
Okay. Okay. All of them or like a specific.

Joe Woodard [00:03:48]:
Well, they have some hits and misses just like Star Wars does, but. Oh, yeah, if you want to know my favorite actual show, because we talk about that a lot, we Trekkies. It would be Voyager.

John Garrett [00:03:59]:
Voyager. Okay. Yeah. Well, no, that’s what I found from doing this is. When people say Star Trek. It’s very specific.

Joe Woodard [00:04:05]:
Yes, very specific. There’s a generation to it. There’s a particular show, a cast they’re most passionate about. In my case, it’s Voyager.

John Garrett [00:04:11]:
There you go. Okay. How about you go more sweet or savory?

Joe Woodard [00:04:15]:
Savory.

John Garrett [00:04:16]:
Savory.

Joe Woodard [00:04:17]:
That was close though.

John Garrett [00:04:18]:
Yeah, yeah, it’s 50, 51.49. There you go. How about puzzles? Sudoku, crossword, jigsaw puzzle, Wordle, kind of all the above.

Joe Woodard [00:04:27]:
But I do enjoy jigsaw puzzles only because they relax me.

John Garrett [00:04:31]:
Yeah. And the final answer is right there on the box. It’s like, oh, that’s what I’m doing. It’s right there. How about a favorite color?

Joe Woodard [00:04:38]:
Blue.

John Garrett [00:04:39]:
Nice. Yeah. How about a least favorite color?

Joe Woodard [00:04:42]:
Pink.

John Garrett [00:04:43]:
Pink. Okay. Fair.

Joe Woodard [00:04:44]:
Like a bright blairy fluorescent pink. A mild pink I can handle. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:04:48]:
Too loud. Yeah, Too loud. How about. Are you more talk or text?

Joe Woodard [00:04:51]:
I’m talk.

John Garrett [00:04:54]:
Yeah. There you go. Three more. Do you have a favorite actor or an actress?

Joe Woodard [00:04:58]:
I’d say yes, and then all of a sudden start thinking about all the other actors. Robert Duvall. I think if I had to pick one, you know, out of my top five, I’d say Robert Duvall.

John Garrett [00:05:08]:
There you go. Okay. Toilet paper roll. You going over or under?

Joe Woodard [00:05:12]:
Oh, that thing fell off the wall like five years ago. So can I answer the question? Left side of the toilet or right side of the toilet?

John Garrett [00:05:18]:
I’ll take it. Left side or right side?

Joe Woodard [00:05:20]:
Right side of the toilet. On the floor. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:05:24]:
There you go. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Joe Woodard [00:05:27]:
Favorite thing I own would be an 18 Porsche Boxster.

John Garrett [00:05:35]:
Nice. Yeah. How long have you had that for?

Joe Woodard [00:05:39]:
Two years.

John Garrett [00:05:40]:
Very cool. That’s awesome.

Joe Woodard [00:05:41]:
Fun little car, stick shift. As far as Porsches go, they call it the poor man’s Porsche. It’s not the ones where you could, you know, buy a house for that amount of money. It’s just, you just get it for the fun. The convertible top, the stick shift, the name.

John Garrett [00:05:55]:
Yeah. You’re in the club.

Joe Woodard [00:05:57]:
I’m still in the club. Even if I’m the, you know, poor man’s Porsche.

John Garrett [00:06:01]:
Right. That’s awesome. Yeah, but you use a Mac, so they can back off.

Joe Woodard [00:06:04]:
They can back off. Yeah, exactly.

John Garrett [00:06:06]:
So let’s talk hiking. How did that get started? Did you grow up a lot of outdoorsy or was it later?

Joe Woodard [00:06:12]:
Well, no, I actually grew up a very indoor kid. You know, the Star Trek, the geekdom, the computers. I had a Commodore 64 back in the day. Computers all the way through to my. When I was a kid, dreamed about the, you know, the Apple computer whenever I was a kid and that’s what I would talk with my friends about. So, no, not very outdoorsy at all.

Joe Woodard [00:06:31]:
But I nonetheless love the mountains, particularly the Smoky Mountains. So as a kid I would do trips there. I had family there. I grew up staying in the summers I’d go spend with my family. We just kids. We would just roam through all Those mountain trails and everything. So it kind of got ingrained in me that, you know, this is, this is part of what I enjoy doing and I enjoy the beauty of nature. It’s never ceases to amaze me how beautiful this planet is and so many different ways that you can see it.

Joe Woodard [00:07:03]:
Even on a single hike you might get 10 different viewpoints. So all of that led me to just passionately hiking. And it doesn’t hurt that I married a passionate hiker.

John Garrett [00:07:14]:
There you go.

Joe Woodard [00:07:15]:
Who’s from Tennessee. Just at the entrance of the southern entrance of the Great Smoky Mountain. Northern entrance of the Great Smoky Mountains. So every time we would go see her family, we get in some hikes and then the rest is history.

John Garrett [00:07:28]:
Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s very cool. And so do you have some that have been your favorite?

Joe Woodard [00:07:34]:
My absolute favorite hike I’ve ever been on in my life is when we hiked from the rim of the Grand Canyon down to the Colorado River. That’s 105 degree temperature. You actually start out at about 80 degrees and then it gets hotter as you go in because, you know, elevation drop and also just the canyon itself enclosed. So we did that one summer back in 2021 and the temperature kept going higher and higher and higher up to about 105 degrees. And the hike itself took eight hours

John Garrett [00:08:03]:
just to get down.

Joe Woodard [00:08:04]:
Yeah. So this will really date me. But if you watch the Brady Bunch, if you’re of my generation, there’s a scene where they go visit the Grand Canyon. There’s a two part episode and they’re riding these mules down and they look over and it’s just this straight off drop to their left. I don’t know how it was filmed, it probably wasn’t filmed on site. But that particular stretch is very real. I mean, you’ve got about 3ft of width on the right, you’ve got a rock facing on the left. Drop off and yeah, you just kind of keep going.

Joe Woodard [00:08:35]:
But it was such an amazing experience. So I was in my 50s when I did it. So it was good to know that my wife and I could still do it now. My daughter was with us at the time too. Some of our younger friends were there. So they got down there about two hours ahead of us and were chilling by the Colorado river when we came panting in. But you know, we did it. We made it.

John Garrett [00:08:55]:
Yeah. And then I guess you made it out because you’re here talking to me.

Joe Woodard [00:08:58]:
Yeah, Making it out. We’ve not tried yet on foot.

John Garrett [00:09:02]:
Okay.

Joe Woodard [00:09:02]:
But what we did is we. Then we rafted down the Colorado river for the next week, and we got out on level ground and took a bus. So that’s right back up. And I’m like, okay, I’m not there yet.

John Garrett [00:09:15]:
No, no. And maybe you shouldn’t be. You know, like, like, there’s certain things where it’s like, I don’t know why people are doing this. Like, you know, we don’t need to. We’re good. Like, I mean, now here in Colorado, we have these Fourteeners, you know, 14,000ft elevation above sea level.

Joe Woodard [00:09:30]:
Well, I did one of those kind of things recently in Colorado. So there were Clear Creek. I’m sorry, I got my Colorado’s and my Tahoe’s mixed up. So in Tahoe, I did something that was about that height. It was. It was called the Clear Creek Trail. And we had an elevation gain of about 2,000, 3,000ft, but we started at about 8,000ft. So if you’re not prepared, if your respiratory system’s not ready for that, we’ll pass out.

John Garrett [00:09:57]:
It does get crazy, too, when you get that 11,000, 12,000. It’s like, there’s not air up there and there’s also not trees. Because even trees are like, we’re done, we’re done. And the humans are like, no, we’re going to keep going. We’re going to keep going. Like. And then you have to get up there and down before, like, storms come in. And you’re the only thing up there.

John Garrett [00:10:16]:
So lightning will kill you by, you know, so you got to be running down the mountain at 3pm so you got to start at like 4am or something crazy. All of these things are like, strike one, strike in my mind.

Joe Woodard [00:10:27]:
That’s why a lot of people don’t do it. A lot of people think you’re just strolling through the woods, but if you do real, like, you know, extreme hiking, like my wife and I do, you’ve got to stay in shape. You’ve got to have the right equipment. You have to have the right kind of, you know, SOS satellite on your phone. You got to really know what you’re doing. Oh, and then the bear spray, too, depending on where you’re going.

John Garrett [00:10:45]:
That’s true, that’s true. Or depending on what mood she’s in. I’m teasing.

Joe Woodard [00:10:51]:
If I, if I’ve been that. Because I can make her that mad, that’s on me.

John Garrett [00:10:55]:
I’m just saying. I’m just saying, like, no, no, it’s a. But I guess. Do you feel like any of this translates to work. I mean, it sounds like just that laundry list of things that you just said that the checklist. To be safe.

Joe Woodard [00:11:07]:
We’ve watched the television show Severance and we were talking a little bit before the show. And you have. I try to treat it like a severance event. I believe in work life harmonization, and I try to practice that out My. I’m passionate about my work. It’s connected to my personal vision. And I don’t believe in severance as a concept, except when you’re supposed to sever and when you’re supposed to go, laptop down, disconnect, clear your mind. That is hiking for me.

Joe Woodard [00:11:36]:
It has, it is intentionally has no relationship to my work whatsoever and no connection to my work whatsoever. The more remote the better.

John Garrett [00:11:44]:
Yeah, yeah. And it just allows you to unplug. And I imagine ideas happen to bubble up on accident.

Joe Woodard [00:11:50]:
They do. And so there’s a good point is I do need to have. And of course you have your phone that has the voice memo recorder, but you do. Once the head gets clear, the ideas start flowing. And so I do capture those. And I do that, not only not lose the idea, but because I need to stay severed. So if I don’t, I’ll just keep spinning the idea around in my head. I just.

Joe Woodard [00:12:10]:
Let’s catalog it and let’s move on and look at the next tree.

John Garrett [00:12:13]:
That’s it. That’s exactly it. And, and it’s. It’s wild to me from doing this podcast over, I don’t know, 10 years plus now that, you know, that’s it. It’s you, you know, and so like some of this stuff subconsciously comes to work, you know, that, that skill set or that muscle that you’re, that you’re exercising, you know, that, that safety list that, you know that, that mentality that, you know, appreciation of some seeing the same thing from ten different angles.

Joe Woodard [00:12:40]:
Yes.

John Garrett [00:12:40]:
You know, that, that sort of thing, like, not everybody has that muscle.

Joe Woodard [00:12:43]:
I think they have it. Is that they care to develop it. Right. And so for a long time, I resisted the concept of the term mindfulness. I’m more of a procedural person. I’m more of a, you know, give me the science, give me the clinical evidence behind things. But I dismissed it too quickly because I thought it was about the pursuit of a nirvana or a state of being or something like that. So, you know, the homing and hawing and, and sitting in the, in the yoga posture, it’s not about any of that stuff at all.

Joe Woodard [00:13:12]:
And by the way, if that if your listeners believe in all that stuff, I’m not disrespecting you, it’s just not how I’m wired.

John Garrett [00:13:17]:
Totally. Absolutely. No, no, I didn’t take it that way. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Woodard [00:13:20]:
So I can’t get my mind wrapped around that kind of ethereal.

John Garrett [00:13:23]:
Absolutely.

Joe Woodard [00:13:24]:
But mindfulness is not ethereal. It’s intensely practical. So when, when I read a book that wasn’t on mindfulness and the author slipped in the concept from the side, I was like, well, okay, so let me. For the listeners that don’t know what it is, it’s just about focusing on something in your present and focusing solely on that thing. So, so if I want to clear my mind, I just look at a tree and think, and just think more and more about the tree, you know, or that, that, that bark is a different color, actually five colors of bark, you know, there are actually three different gradients of bark bark. And the bark is different on the top of the tree than the bottom of the tree. And it’s not because I want to know more about that tree. It’s because it brings me completely into that moment so that I can sever and clear my mind.

Joe Woodard [00:14:16]:
And then so ironically, mindfulness is about mind emptiness almost. And, and then, you know, when I go on and hike from that point forward, ideas do flow or I am more focused on the person I’m hiking with, which is often my wife, but I’m more present in my environment.

John Garrett [00:14:32]:
Yeah, I mean, you’re exactly right. I mean walking meditations, I mean, washing your dishes can be a meditation.

Joe Woodard [00:14:38]:
Yes, it can be.

John Garrett [00:14:39]:
All these things, you know, can be meditation. It’s just that our mind is so scattered and so, so splintered on all these different things that we’re all trying to do all at the same time. And it’s, it doesn’t work and it

Joe Woodard [00:14:52]:
wears your brain down to. Your brain just needs to rest every once in a while. And you know, David Allen said something very interesting in his book Getting Things Done. He said your mind is for having ideas, not containing them. That would apply to tasks. It would apply to anything that we feel like we have to hold on to. So, to kind of long winded answer to your question, the only relationship I have to work is that I try to stay severed in. The methodology is a combination of capture so I can get the idea out of my mind and system and get back.

Joe Woodard [00:15:21]:
And mindfulness.

John Garrett [00:15:23]:
Yeah, I mean that’s, that’s exactly it. And, and it’s, but it’s cool to hear that you can’t really separate, like as much as you try one side sneaks in the other side or whatever. But, I love the idea that you’re the intentionality behind it and, you know, being mindful and, and being all in on your end. You know, when I’m hiking, I’m all, I’m hiking. Like, I’m not.

Joe Woodard [00:15:45]:
I’m hiking, I’m like.

John Garrett [00:15:46]:
And if, if something comes up that’s great, I’m gonna record it and then keep hiking and keep being in the moment. And that’s. That’s awesome, man. That’s. That’s really cool. And, and I guess. Is it, is it something that, that you’ve shared with clients, colleagues?

Joe Woodard [00:16:00]:
Yeah, I mean, I’ve brought it up in examples. Sometimes I’m just asked, you know, what, what do you do? And like, like you asked me on this show, so I’ll share it, but I don’t lead out with it. I don’t really, you know, it’s. It’s not supposed to be collisional worlds. My hiking isn’t supposed to be about my work and my work supposed to be about my hiking. It is the place that I go and just regroup.

John Garrett [00:16:22]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, how much does it matter to you if people do know the hiking?

Joe Woodard [00:16:28]:
I don’t care. It’s no secret.

John Garrett [00:16:30]:
No, no. Right. Yeah, it’s no secret.

Joe Woodard [00:16:31]:
And sometimes it does come up organically. You know, one of my clients, my primary contact with that new client, she’s an avid hiker too. She’s also about 25 years by junior, so she hikes more, even more than I do. But I was impressed at how well I can keep up with her. So it comes up when it comes up.

John Garrett [00:16:49]:
Yeah, absolutely. And then you have a little bit of a different connection, I’d say to her than you do to maybe another client that they’re.

Joe Woodard [00:16:58]:
And it’s all a relationship business anyway. So when you have the connection points. The only people I can’t have a relationship with are the ones that think Star Wars is better than Star Trek. It’s a non starter for me. I’ve listened to enough of your podcast episodes. I know that that’s you, so I just had to say it.

John Garrett [00:17:13]:
Right. Fair. Fair. I guess we’re not hanging. We’re good.

Joe Woodard [00:17:17]:
We’re done. This is it. This is all you get.

John Garrett [00:17:19]:
Or when we do hang out, you’re just going to continually chip away.

Joe Woodard [00:17:22]:
Just chip away. Yes, exactly. I like that. Let’s do that. Let’s do the chip away thing.

John Garrett [00:17:27]:
Right, Right. And I Guess how much does it matter on having an organization where, you know, we do know people’s “Ands” and we encourage people to have an a”And” versus it doesn’t matter.

Joe Woodard [00:17:39]:
Yeah, no, it always matters. And I think in a world of AI, it matters even more. You know, and this is going to be a big theme of our upcoming conference here called Strange New World, because it does sound very strange. Also that’s the name of a Star Trek show. So that’s no accident. A Strange New World is just about how strange the world of AI is making things plus private equities infusion into our accounting space is making us, in a positive way, more metric driven, more outcome driven, higher capitalization, but it’s also making us a little more corporate. You know, corporate’s not bad. It’s just different where, you know, the kind of roots of accountancy were that you plant in the community and you’re kind of the doctor of the community when it comes to all things finances.

Joe Woodard [00:18:23]:
Now that’s moving more and more into the corporate space as PE intersects us and then AI is intersecting us. So a lot of people are not figuratively speaking or even literally walking down the street to talk to the human. They’re getting their answers from generative AI. And so what’s the role of the accountant in the future? A lot of professions are asking that. And with all the professions, I’m going to borrow from a line in Dr. Susskind’s the Future of the Professions book, which I strongly recommend reading if you’re a professional service provider in this audience, called the Future of the Professions. In that book, he said that there are two things that will remain in a world of AI. That which the AI cannot do, which is obvious.

Joe Woodard [00:19:06]:
But the second one’s less obvious, that which the machines or the AI ought not do. And it’s the ought not do part that we need to put more emphasis into. So can an AI tells a business owner that they need to fire a key employee? Yes. Might it even be the right decision? Yes. But ought it to ever give that advice to that business owner? Or is that a human role? Right. And I would argue it’s a human role.

John Garrett [00:19:38]:
Yeah, I mean, I agree totally. And there’s even an example where it was a chess, like master level chess tournament. Anytime there was a human versus a bot, the bot would win every time. But if you have the human plus the bot versus the bot, then the human plus the bot wins because the human element was a little bit unpredictable and a little bit nuanced to provide just that. Enough of that wrinkle where it just makes it real and authentic.

Joe Woodard [00:20:07]:
I’ll add to that that when that bot wins at chess, it doesn’t know that it won at chess.

John Garrett [00:20:14]:
Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Joe Woodard [00:20:15]:
So it has no self aware and no sentience whatsoever.

John Garrett [00:20:19]:
And that’s what, What’s Your “And”? is all about. Because AI doesn’t have an “And”. And if you’re a human being, that’s just all work all the time, all technical skills, well then you’re gone. I mean, because you’re racing against something that’s built to just smoke you. I mean, that’s exactly right.

Joe Woodard [00:20:36]:
You’re never going to outthink it. And increasingly it’s going to become more and more omniscient. The question is, can it feel? Can it see itself? Can it know? Can it handle complex kind of human interactions and dynamics and politics inside of disease? No, it can’t. And it also can’t go on a hike. Even if it’s a robot. It can go on a hike, but it can’t. It can’t be mindful and it can’t. It can’t ever understand or have the emotional reaction to nature that a human would have.

Joe Woodard [00:21:08]:
It’s simply putting one of its robotic feet in front of the other and adjusting to its environment. So we need to be more and more human.

John Garrett [00:21:16]:
That’s exactly it. It’s just at the end of the day, just more human. I love it. That’s awesome. Well, this has been really great, Joe. I feel like that’s a great landing point right there for everybody. Just be more human. But I feel like I rudely peppered you with so many questions at the beginning that it’s only fair we turn the tables.

John Garrett [00:21:34]:
We make it the Joe Woodard podcast. Do do do do do do do. So thanks for having me on. I booked myself. But anyway, yeah, so do you have any questions for me? I’m in the hot seat. I’m all yours.

Joe Woodard [00:21:45]:
Absolutely. So I see a folded flag in your background history or a family members?

John Garrett [00:21:52]:
It was my dad. When my dad passed away, that was. Yeah, the flag.

Joe Woodard [00:21:55]:
That’s fantastic. Well, we thank him posthumously for his service. I’m an army vet myself. So where, where, what branch did he serve in?

John Garrett [00:22:03]:
Well, it’s. I, when I did comedy, I used to do a joke about. My dad was in the military. Well, he was in the Air Force.

Joe Woodard [00:22:10]:
Army guys laughs at that, right?

John Garrett [00:22:12]:
Army and Navy guys laugh. Their people laugh so hard at that. And even the Air Force people are like, yeah, fair. Like you Know, like, it’s fair. But yeah, he was a career. Career Air Force. And so I grew up moving every two plus years all over the world, so.

Joe Woodard [00:22:27]:
Fantastic. Okay, so also, you went to Notre Dame.

John Garrett [00:22:31]:
I did, yes.

Joe Woodard [00:22:32]:
You have to be Sherlock Holmes. There’s a gold helmet back there. Yeah, exactly. But is it just because you’re a fan or did you play?

John Garrett [00:22:39]:
No, no, I was in the band.

Joe Woodard [00:22:41]:
Oh, okay. Well, there you go. We had that in common. I was also in the band, see,

John Garrett [00:22:45]:
And I was on the field, and I actually, what was really cool. I was there. I’ll date myself. I was there when Coach Holtz was there. His last three years were my first three. So at the beginning of every season, right before the season started, he would randomly just golf cart over to where we were practicing, and he would come over and talk to us, which is really fantastic. Like, you didn’t have to do this. And he wrote the forward to my book, actually.

Joe Woodard [00:23:10]:
Okay.

John Garrett [00:23:11]:
And in the forward, he says, when you interact with people, they’re asking themselves, do you care about me? And don’t leave that to chance. And so he came over and addressed the band and was like, hey, we’re over here doing two a days. You know, we’re exhausted. We’re, you know, dragging. And then all of a sudden, we hear you guys play the victory march, and everyone’s jazzed, and everyone’s got an extra boost of energy and everything. And he’s like, you know, you’re as much a part of the game day Saturday as we are.

Joe Woodard [00:23:39]:
That was really cool for him to say.

John Garrett [00:23:41]:
Yeah. And he’s like, you know, we’re all in this. And he did it every year randomly, just, like, out of nowhere. And, yeah, it was really cool and special and something that I never forgot. And then for him to write the forward to my book was just next level. And it was actually pretty funny because I asked him before it was finished, and then when he said yeah, I was like, well, now I got to finish the book. It’s like, you can’t just smidge of pressure.

Joe Woodard [00:24:04]:
Right, exactly.

John Garrett [00:24:05]:
Right. And not publish this. Like, what the heck? So, yeah, special moment for me, for sure.

Joe Woodard [00:24:11]:
We got one more for you. Who. Who’s your favorite business author?

John Garrett [00:24:14]:
Favorite business author. I think it applies, but. But I love Steven Pressfield’s War of Art.

Joe Woodard [00:24:21]:
Oh, okay.

John Garrett [00:24:22]:
Yeah, he’s not business, but it could apply. And Eckhart Tolle’s a New Earth. If every high school kid read A New Earth, I think 95% of the world’s problems would go away.

Joe Woodard [00:24:33]:
Well, then I’ll have to pick that one up. I haven’t heard of that.

John Garrett [00:24:35]:
Yeah, that’s a good one. Or you can catch the audio and put it on, like, quadruple.

Joe Woodard [00:24:38]:
Yeah, I’m an audible guy. Yeah. I do audible books. Not when I’m hiking, but when I’m on my four miles a day walking. Because I do that to maintain my hiking abilities. That’s when I do my audible books.

John Garrett [00:24:49]:
Yeah. But with Eckhart, you’re going to want to speed it because he’s very The Power of Now. And like, we’re very like, it’s like, come on. Did he disappear in between words?

Joe Woodard [00:24:59]:
Like, where did he go? Like, it’s awesome.

John Garrett [00:25:01]:
Yeah. But it’s great. So very cool. Well, thank you so much, Joe, for being a part of what’s your and this has been awesome.

Joe Woodard [00:25:06]:
Yeah, it’s been good to be here. Thank you.

John Garrett [00:25:11]:
Great. And everybody listening. And if you want to see some pictures of Joe out on the trails or connect with him on social media, be sure to go to WhatsYourAnd.com and everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button. Do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture and don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.