Apple PodcastsSpotifyPodchaserStitcherOvercastPocketCastsAcastiHeartRadioSoundCloud

John Garrett [00:00:00]:
Hey, this is John Garrett. I’m passionate about making work more human, especially in this age of AI. I don’t just host this podcast. I also help organizations put people first through my keynote speaking, coaching, and What’s Your “And”? implementation programs. To learn more or to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, I invite you to join the movement at WhatsYourAnd.com. Now let’s jump into this week’s conversation.

Holly Watkins [00:00:23]:
Hi, this is Holly Watkins, and when I’m not writing or creating, I’m listening to John Garrett and What’s Your “And”?.

John Garrett [00:00:39]:
Welcome to episode 735 of What’s Your “And”?. This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And”; those things above and beyond your technical skills. It’s the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of “Who else are you beyond the job title?”. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes Noble Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at WhatsYourAnd.com. The book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture.

John Garrett [00:01:20]:
And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such nice reviews on Amazon. Thank you so much for those. It’s ridiculous how much that matters. And more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast. You don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest and friend, Holly Watkins.

John Garrett [00:01:48]:
She’s a Principal at Balanced Imagination Consulting with accounting firms to improve efficiency and connection. She’s out of Dallas, Texas, and now she’s with me here today. Holly, thanks so much for taking time to finally be with me on What’s Your “And”?.

Holly Watkins [00:02:00]:
It is great to be here after meeting you 12-ish years ago for the first time.

John Garrett [00:02:07]:
No, this is so great. I’m excited to have you on and your whole journey of finding your “And” is so fantastic. And I mean, you’ve been a part of this journey almost since as long as I have, and it’s mine. So like, you know, it’s been cool to see this unfold, but I do have 17 rapid-fire questions that I’ve actually never asked you before, and I probably should have a long time ago because then I would know who we’re dealing with. But let’s have some fun here. Do you have a favorite color?

Holly Watkins [00:02:34]:
Purple.

John Garrett [00:02:35]:
Purple. Nice. Okay. How about a least favorite color?

Holly Watkins [00:02:39]:
No, I love them all.

John Garrett [00:02:40]:
You love them all? Okay. Just in case they’re listening, you don’t want one to be angry. All right. I get you.

Holly Watkins [00:02:45]:
All right.

John Garrett [00:02:45]:
Fair enough. Are you more sweet or savory?

Holly Watkins [00:02:49]:
Savory.

John Garrett [00:02:50]:
Savory. All right. How about when it comes to puzzles? Sudoku, crossword, jigsaw puzzle? Wordle. I don’t know what else is out there.

Holly Watkins [00:02:57]:
Sudoku, definitely. I remember the very first one I did.

John Garrett [00:03:01]:
Oh, wow. Okay. So you like, you go back.

Holly Watkins [00:03:04]:
Yes, it was on paper in New Mexico and I was obsessed and my mom was floored by how obsessed I was with the numbers, trying to get it to work.

John Garrett [00:03:16]:
That’s great. That’s awesome. Yeah. Well, I had a joke when I did comedy that that’s how I would do a tax return. It was like a Sudoku puzzle. Like, oh, there’s no 7 over in this row. Let’s just put one here. Like, whatever.

John Garrett [00:03:27]:
Obviously, the statute of limitations has passed, so we’re good. Are you more talk or text?

Holly Watkins [00:03:33]:
Text.

John Garrett [00:03:34]:
Text. Okay. All right. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Holly Watkins [00:03:38]:
Jennifer Garner.

John Garrett [00:03:39]:
Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. She’s fantastic. This is an important one. Toilet paper roll. You going over or under?

Holly Watkins [00:03:45]:
Over. It is in the patent. I looked it up. Another obsession of mine. That’s awesome.

John Garrett [00:03:53]:
That’s so great. Are you like changing it when you go places or?

Holly Watkins [00:03:57]:
Yes.

John Garrett [00:03:57]:
Oh, we’re at this level. Okay. All right. I like it. That’s awesome.

Holly Watkins [00:04:01]:
I can’t be friends with people who have it under. It just does not make sense.

John Garrett [00:04:06]:
Like, what other bad decisions are they making in their life?

Holly Watkins [00:04:09]:
Exactly.

John Garrett [00:04:10]:
Star Wars or Star Trek?

Holly Watkins [00:04:14]:
Star Wars, definitely.

John Garrett [00:04:16]:
Okay. Yeah, me too. Yeah. How about your computer? More PC or a Mac?

Holly Watkins [00:04:21]:
Probably PC.

John Garrett [00:04:22]:
Okay. You do a little of both. All right. Interesting. How about, uh, favorite cartoon as a kid?

Holly Watkins [00:04:28]:
G.I. Joe.

John Garrett [00:04:30]:
Wow. Forgot all about that one. Knowing is half the battle.

Holly Watkins [00:04:34]:
ThunderCats, G.I. Joe, He-Man. Yeah.

John Garrett [00:04:37]:
Yeah. ‘Cause at the end was always that like 1-minute, like knowing is half the battle kind of segment piece at the end of G.I. Joe. And yeah.

John Garrett [00:04:45]:
Oh, wow. That’s—okay.

Holly Watkins [00:04:46]:
wow.

John Garrett [00:04:46]:
Okay. Did you have like the figures that went with it or just watching the show?

Holly Watkins [00:04:51]:
So my brother, 4 and a half years older than me, he always had all of the action figures and he only let me get the ones that he didn’t like. So I had, of course, like all the girls. And then there was one with a football uniform on and I can’t remember his name, but he let me have that one.

John Garrett [00:05:09]:
Okay. All right. That’s interesting. All right. So by watching the show, you could have all of them. So there you go. All right. How about ice cream? You go in a cup or in a cone?

Holly Watkins [00:05:18]:
Cone.

John Garrett [00:05:19]:
Cone. Nice. All right. Are you more shower or bath?

Holly Watkins [00:05:23]:
Shower. I really love baths, but I just never have time to do it. And we have 4 dogs, so they stare at me and don’t like when I’m underwater.

John Garrett [00:05:32]:
Right, right. I could see where that could go. Do you have a favorite band or a musician?

Holly Watkins [00:05:38]:
Yeah, Aaron Lewis.

John Garrett [00:05:40]:
Oh, nice. There you go. That’s fantastic. All right. Uh, since you have the, uh, accounting background, more balance sheet or income statement?

Holly Watkins [00:05:48]:
Balance sheet all the way.

John Garrett [00:05:50]:
You were ready for that one. You were like, I know this one. How about a favorite number?

Holly Watkins [00:05:55]:
27.

John Garrett [00:05:56]:
Is there a reason on that one?

Holly Watkins [00:05:58]:
It’s my birth date.

John Garrett [00:05:59]:
Oh, well, there you go. ‘Cause yeah, it’s a unique number. We got 2 more. Summer, winter, spring, or fall?

Holly Watkins [00:06:05]:
I have not experienced spring or fall being in public accounting, but I think that I would like them.

John Garrett [00:06:11]:
I think I would like— they sound good.

Holly Watkins [00:06:13]:
They sound really nice.

John Garrett [00:06:16]:
Well, this year you get them. So there we go. And, uh, the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Holly Watkins [00:06:23]:
Some of my mom’s paintings.

John Garrett [00:06:25]:
Oh, nice. Yeah, that’s very cool. That’s fantastic. Did she do a lot?

Holly Watkins [00:06:32]:
She didn’t do a whole lot, but the ones that she did are very unique, and she even drew my son when he was little for a Christmas present for my husband. And it’s so cool to know that piece of work was from her and of my son at that time.

John Garrett [00:06:52]:
There’s meta layers to that. That’s really special, which kind of weaves into your creating and your creative side of things. And so, let’s talk, I guess, writing. And how did that come about? Is it something from when you were a kid that you liked to do, or was it something that came about later in life?

Holly Watkins [00:07:11]:
It really came about as a kid and definitely in high school. I wrote a research paper on steroids and swimming, and my high school teacher said, you need to send this to Sports Illustrated. It is so good. It is so well-written, like top-notch. And I don’t know what happened, John. I got to college wanting to go into writing and journalism, and somehow I came out being an accountant. I don’t know what happened there.

John Garrett [00:07:41]:
Yeah, probably the fear of not a steady paycheck, and then accounting was very much a steady paycheck. So yeah, all of that came into play, I’m sure. But you went in with those intentions, so you started that way. Did you still keep that going in college, like on a— as a minor or on the side a little bit?

Holly Watkins [00:08:00]:
I didn’t. I think I blanked out freshman year in college and didn’t quite wake up until I was like 48. But okay, I majored in French, and I am incredibly grateful to my dad because when he said, what are you going to major in? I said French. He said, what are you going to major in? I said French. He cleared his throat and said, what else are you going to major in? And I said, Business. And I’m so grateful that he knew I would not get very far in Texas with a French degree.

John Garrett [00:08:35]:
Right? You have to go over to Louisiana for that one. Uh, like, come on now. Like, that’s great. I mean, all these other dimensions to who you are though, uh, you know, beyond the business side is really great. And so then when did writing come back into your life?

Holly Watkins [00:08:52]:
So, I was in public accounting for a little over 20 years, and I kept trying to talk myself into liking it by understanding the fun things about it, like getting to meet clients and understanding why they liked what they did, like why they sold the product they did, you know, whatever it was. And then in 2020, we did our first Lean Six Sigma project with process improvement. And it was so fun. And I realized I had been stifling all of the creativity because I, when I do something, I go all in, like I don’t hold back. And so, I didn’t have any energy to write or do anything else.

John Garrett [00:09:36]:
Right.

Holly Watkins [00:09:37]:
And so, shortly after those Lean Six Sigma projects, we, my mom lost her vision. And so then I became her caretaker, her Uber driver, her grocery shopper, her everything. And fast forward to last October, I left public accounting, started Balanced Imagination, and I kind of didn’t know what to do with all my free time. And I sat down and started journaling. And before I knew it, I had a book. Yeah. Yeah. It was a long journey to weave back to writing.

John Garrett [00:10:12]:
That’s awesome. Because I mean, I know that like when I came to speak, to Howard, the firm that you were with at the time., and I knew you had that painting in your office and you were like, well, a little bit of this when I have time, kind of accidentally I did this painting. And I’m like, that’s awesome. Are you serious? Like, what are you talking about? And it’s something where I feel like people feel the pressure that it has to be something I do every week. And it’s like, no, no. I mean, you know, when you have time sort of a thing, if it brings you joy. But I love how you found a way to bring that creativity into work.

John Garrett [00:10:47]:
So then you’re able to have more opportunity to do it because you’re at work more than you are not at work in your waking hours.

Holly Watkins [00:10:55]:
Yes.

John Garrett [00:10:55]:
And so, you know, you’re able to bring that in and, you know, into the fold, which is really cool. And so do you feel like the pre-2020 Holly versus the post-2020 Holly? Are the same, or was there a difference there?

Holly Watkins [00:11:10]:
There’s a big difference there. My husband laughed every year on April 16th where, you know, everybody else is passed out cold sleeping till 2 in the afternoon. I was always like up early and starting a new project. I made Roman shades, like literally the hardware, the fabric, the sewing, every single piece of a Roman shade I put together. And was it perfect? Absolutely not. But he kept saying like every year, I would have some random project and it finally occurred to me in 2019, like, oh, I’m stifling that side of my brain for an entire busy season. And then like the other side fights to get out in one day. So yeah, I’m very different from 2019 because I’ve allowed myself to be me and allowed that creativity to come out.

Holly Watkins [00:12:06]:
And it showed up, you know, for 6 years in the process improvement and trying to help people enjoy their work and enjoy their lives better just by being more efficient in their everyday day. So, they’re not just busy all the time. That’s no fun.

John Garrett [00:12:24]:
I love how you said, like, you know, that you just allowed yourself to be me. I feel like that’s 99.9% of it. I mean, you know, if not 100% of it, of pretending to be what we think we’re supposed to be is the barrier, and it’s a make-believe thin veil between you today and the you you want to be. The full whole you is just this mental block of pretending to be what I think I’m supposed to be. And then when you remove that, I mean, it just collapses on itself in magic. All of a sudden you’re better at work, you’re better at home, you’re, you know, you don’t have to save up all that creative energy to have it explode on April 16th and Roman shades of all things. Like, what Pinterest account were you on?

Holly Watkins [00:13:14]:
I have no idea. That was before ChatGPT too.

John Garrett [00:13:17]:
Right? Oh man. So you like did it really old school. And so like, how much of it do you think is just, you know, in our own heads of just, you know, holding us back versus just remove that and just be you and then see what happens.

Holly Watkins [00:13:34]:
You know, I have asked myself that so many times. My dad was a banker, my mom was an artist. And so I had both this left side, right side of the brain. My mom literally tried— not tried, she succeeded in making a four-poster bed, like, you know, the canopy on the top and everything. That’s who she was. So I get that creative side from her, but in the business world, that’s just not really what you talk about. Bankers, you know, very conservative profession. So I don’t know.

Holly Watkins [00:14:08]:
I mean, was it my upbringing? Was it all in my head? I don’t know.

John Garrett [00:14:12]:
Yeah, because I mean, you think it’s not what we talk about, but then when you start to talk about it, everybody has follow-up questions. Then it’s like, then people remember. I mean, I remember that painting in your office. Do I know anything about your tax skills? No. And I don’t care. Like, I really don’t, because that’s not the real Holly. That’s a small piece of Holly. Like, the real Holly is, okay, this creative Holly.

John Garrett [00:14:38]:
And so I remember that 10, 12 years later. And so, you know, I feel like we just tell ourselves these things that we think matter. And then when the other parts come out and then it’s like, no one— you’ve never got fired because you talked about, oh, I made Roman shades right after busy. Oh, well, that’s it. You’re out. Like, you know, it’s all of the people are like, what are those? Especially, I imagine, you know, like, or how’d you do that? Or, you know, there’s follow-up questions to that.

Holly Watkins [00:15:01]:
Yeah.

John Garrett [00:15:04]:
Which is cool. And you’d rather talk about the creative side of you and the things that you’re creating probably than one of the dozens of tax returns that you did over the last 3 months, right? So yeah, I mean, I love that so much that how it’s evolved and it’s just peeling back some layers. It’s there. I feel like too, so many people that I talk with, they’re like, oh, I got to go find it. It’s like, no, no, it’s there. You have to uncover it.

Holly Watkins [00:15:33]:
Well, and something I’ve never thought about before, but, you know, my dad as a banker was very business-oriented, but he has a major hobby of hunting and travel and fishing and exercise. He has all these other things and that’s totally okay. Whereas my mom, she’s an artist and she was also an entrepreneur. So, you know, she would see a need in the elementary school or whatever it was, and start a business to help that need. And so, yeah, we all have it. So it was probably in my head, John. Like, it was just probably all in my head.

John Garrett [00:16:10]:
It’s not just you. I’m not trying to make you feel bad. I’m saying it’s all of us. It’s not even a brick wall. It’s not even a wall. Like, it’s a sheer curtain. Like, it’s like you can see through it. Like, it’s not even hard.

John Garrett [00:16:21]:
It doesn’t hurt. Like, it’s like, just move it. Like, that’s it. Uh, like, that’s all you got. Like, just one day you wake up and you’re like, yeah, it’s not there anymore. And then, okay, it’s like a screen. It’s like you sort of see it, but not, but then you feel like it’s this amazing, this super thick, impenetrable, whatever. And it’s not, it’s not at all.

John Garrett [00:16:42]:
And I mean, I guess, was that side of you when you would share that creative, I guess, did you feel like conversations were easier with clients, with colleagues? Was there that side of you that came out?

Holly Watkins [00:16:55]:
Yes, definitely. Anytime I’d go out with a client or, you know, meet with a team member in the office, the conversation was this much about tax and was enormous about whatever hobby, activity, creativity, you know, whatever was out there. That’s the thing that spurred the questions. It was never, hey, let’s dive into this tax code further. That’s exciting.

John Garrett [00:17:22]:
The way you said that made me not want to do that. But, you know, like it’s, yeah, I mean, sure. We’re going to get to the work. And yes, I’m good at my job, but I don’t have to talk about it 24/7 to prove to you that I’m good at it. Actually, personally, whenever I meet people that are 24/7 talking about it, I think that they’re actually not very good at their job because you’re trying to convince me and convince yourself that you don’t suck at this. But the people that— I’m just good at this. I don’t need to talk about it. I mean, we’ll get to it, but let’s be human to human first.

John Garrett [00:17:53]:
sort of a thing, which I love. And how much do you feel like it is on— I mean, you were a partner at a firm. I mean, how much does that matter that people have “Ands”? There’s work to do. There’s charge codes to hit. We got things. How much does that matter as a leader of an organization that people are whole humans, I guess?

Holly Watkins [00:18:15]:
Well, it depends on the firm. It depends on the culture. And, you know, I think that some of the most productive people in the firm were the ones who did have outside hobbies. And the profession as a whole has way too much emphasis on chargeable hours. And so, if you’re in the right culture where people value taking a break, people value that mental health, people value the value billing system as opposed to chargeable hours, then it’s more productive, it’s a better environment, it’s happier. But the profession, like, I get it. Like, you have to have chargeable hours to have a profitable firm.

Holly Watkins [00:19:03]:
I think there’s just kind of a paradox.

John Garrett [00:19:05]:
Yeah, yeah. Work has to get done. But it’s interesting, you said earlier that often the high performers were the same ones that had hobbies and passions and interests outside of work. And, and, you know, they were a CPA and something else. I mean, even the low performers have something else. It’s just they’ve ignored it or it’s gone dormant type of a thing. And it just shows that the more dimensions that you have, the more successful you’re going to be. It’s wild.

John Garrett [00:19:31]:
I did a conference and somebody posted about it a couple of months ago, and someone who wasn’t there left a comment of, well, “What if my “And” is just winning? I’m just getting really good at my job and that’s my “And”? And I was like, well, clearly you weren’t in the room. Secondly, why are you making it different? Like, why is it exclusive that being good at your job and being human are two exclusively different things? Like, I think it’s part of being human is being good at your job and being technically sound and also having hobbies and passions and interests and other dimensions to who you are. Like, it’s not an exclusive thing, either or, you know, it’s not what’s your or, it’s what’s your and, you know, type of a thing.

Holly Watkins [00:20:13]:
Well, and how many times are you like so focused on a problem, whether it’s work or anything, and you’re just, you’re really like struggling to find the answer, and then you take a break and you’re walking down the hall or you go for a run or you hop in the shower and all of a sudden it’s like light bulb goes off, I know what the answer is. That’s where the and comes into play. Like if you are so hyper-focused on one thing, you’re not going to see the bigger picture.

John Garrett [00:20:39]:
Right.

Holly Watkins [00:20:40]:
The most powerful movie that related to my transformation was Moneyball.

John Garrett [00:20:47]:
Oh yeah, okay.

Holly Watkins [00:20:48]:
If we have a good hitter, why didn’t he hit good? Well, if we have all these processes and we’re so good at being efficient in accounting, then why do we pull all-nighters? Why are we always last minute? Why?

John Garrett [00:21:00]:
Like, why? You shut your mouth, Holly. Get back to work. We don’t want to talk about it.

Holly Watkins [00:21:07]:
Exactly. I’m going to give a shameless plug to Boomer Consulting, but they were transformational in my transformation and just saying it doesn’t have to be this way.

John Garrett [00:21:18]:
That’s so funny because when I worked at PwC and I transferred from one office to another office for about, uh, probably 3 pay periods, I got double paychecks because we were in 2 different regions. Yeah. And I was in internal audit and I, so I went to the partner, I was like, hey, what if we audited ourselves. He’s like, John, I don’t want to talk about it. Get out of my office. He’s like—

Holly Watkins [00:21:40]:
He’s like, okay, I earned my double paycheck.

John Garrett [00:21:43]:
I was like, you’re going to come back and ask for this, so stop giving it to me because I don’t want to spend it before you come ask. But that’s so great that you were able to bring this into the fold and to be an example for others of, hey, you can be successful and also have other dimensions to who you are. You can bring it into the fold at work, but also have it outside of work and don’t lose yourself in this journey. And I guess, do you have any words of encouragement to people listening? And I mean, your journey through finding your “And” and what have you, or just if people think I have something, but no one cares because it has nothing to do with what I do at work.

Holly Watkins [00:22:23]:
Biggest piece of advice that I ever got was a book called Stress Less, Accomplish More. We all think we are the busiest person on the planet. And Stress Less, Accomplish More teaches you to pause twice a day for 15 minutes and meditate. And when that was introduced to me, I was like, I don’t have 15 minutes. That is ridiculous. You know, this is insane to even think about. Like, that is 0.5 chargeable hours. And when I started doing that, Just twice a day, 15 minutes, my brain cleared.

Holly Watkins [00:23:03]:
It got the break it needed. And when I got back to work, I could finish tasks 10 times faster than before. I’m making up the 10 times, but like significantly faster than before. Yes, it was tangible. And, you know, we all think we cannot take that break. We all think we cannot sit down and write. And it’s Really focus on when you’re in a room and you say, I want to be that person, become that person. Now, it kind of worked opposite with me.

Holly Watkins [00:23:35]:
I was in a room and somebody was explaining their path to managing partner and all the organizations that they had joined. And I was sitting there like, I don’t want to be that person. I don’t want to be in this room anymore.

John Garrett [00:23:49]:
Yeah, no, totally. I mean, you know, be who you want to be. Now, it can still be in a firm, it can still be in corporate, it can still be in the work that you do. That’s why it’s not, oh, go quit your job and whatever. It’s like, no, no, it’s a side hobby. It’s just a thing that I do for fun. And just make sure that that reminds you that you’re a human that is in accounting, you’re a human that is in engineering, you’re a human that is in banking. And first and foremost, you’re a human being with other dimensions.

John Garrett [00:24:18]:
So I don’t want to be what that person is or who they are or who they portray to be, but you can be you. And then it’s wild to see how the impact that has on people is significantly more than the person that’s pretending to be who they think they’re supposed to be. And you can sniff that out in a second. I mean, people are sick of that, especially now.

Holly Watkins [00:24:43]:
Yes, especially now.

John Garrett [00:24:45]:
That’s really cool to hear. How much does it matter on leadership to create that space and care about the people that are around them versus, well, I’ll just start as a small peer group with other associates and whatever?

Holly Watkins [00:24:58]:
I think the youngest, the younger generation that is coming up now, I think they crave authenticity. They crave connection more than my generation did. And I applaud them for it. It’s, you know, I’m Gen X and I worked the 90-hour weeks. because my boss told me to and that’s what they did. But this younger generation, they don’t want to. And I’m like, whoa, what? You’re way smarter than I was. Like, what’s the point of all those 90-hour weeks? And I kept hearing in public accounting, like, if you work 40 hours a week, that’s part-time.

John Garrett [00:25:36]:
Oh my Lord.

Holly Watkins [00:25:36]:
This younger generation, this is not what they want to do. They don’t want to work more than 40 hours a week or whatever their max is. And that’s perfectly fine. And I think for public accounting to excel and kind of dig out of the hole that it’s in, it’s going to have to realize it needs to change the way it thinks. And, you know, we’re just losing too many people to the gig economy, to industry, to other professions because nobody wants to work that way anymore.

John Garrett [00:26:11]:
Yeah. I mean, it has to be human first. I mean, without the humans, nothing happens. I don’t care how much tech, how much AI, how much all this. I’m not anti any of that. I’m just pro-human. And you have to level up. I feel like the AI and the tech has gotten way ahead as far as a priority goes.

John Garrett [00:26:26]:
And we feel like it’s a teeter-totter sometimes where, oh, well, one’s up, one’s down. It’s like, no, no, both up. So bring the human up more.

Holly Watkins [00:26:34]:
Yes.

John Garrett [00:26:34]:
Bring the human out from behind the job title. We got to know who these people are and really you know, not let them just run all over the place and make up crazy rules, you know, that the staff are now telling you what to do. No, it’s not it at all. It’s just caring. Just have a genuine interest.

Holly Watkins [00:26:53]:
One of my early success stories, this just meant the world to me. We had, you know, typical office. We had a receptionist and people— it was before COVID People were not coming into the office as much as they used to. People were emailing files and she sat up there, like she had the best attitude all the time. And she sat up there reading her book, like her Kindle all the time. And one day I walked in and she was just bursting, like tears just bursting from her eyes. And I’m like, what is wrong? Day two happened again. And finally I said, “What is going on?” She said, “I don’t have a purpose.”.

Holly Watkins [00:27:30]:
And I said, what do you like to do? And she said, I love data input. I love feeling like I have a purpose, like I have something to do. And I’m just sitting here reading, like I’ve read all of the books, all of them. I’m done. And so, we started working together and I taught her some QuickBooks Online. I taught, you know, like just random data input stuff that I hated and she loved. And we changed her title from receptionist to director of first impressions.

John Garrett [00:28:00]:
Oh, there you go.

Holly Watkins [00:28:01]:
Yeah. And I gave her a little gift that was meaningful to her, a pair of red Converse sneakers. And she like turned around, she was so happy, she had a purpose. And that, like, talk about the people and looking at the people side of the business, that’s the way to do it.

John Garrett [00:28:22]:
It’s, it’s super simple. It really is. It just takes a hot minute to, you know, instead of that 15-minute meditation, maybe do a 15-minute check-in with another human. Hey, how’s life? Like, you know, and, and the 2 questions I love is What do you love to do at work and how can I help you do more of that? Data entry? Cool. I got plenty of that. And the second thing is, what do you love to do outside of work? How can I help you do more of that? Let’s get the calendar out. Let’s make sure that you’re taking that trip. Let’s make sure that you’re doing the things.

John Garrett [00:28:53]:
Show me some pictures of this. I’d love to read your transcript of the book you’re writing when you want to share it or whatever it is. Just those two questions can go so far, it’s take one step back to take ten steps forward. It’s not even close. And so, I love that example. I mean, it’s such an easy thing for people to see and as of what can happen if you just have that mindset. Because yeah, I mean, you can’t walk in every day and see someone crying. This is brutal.

John Garrett [00:29:22]:
I mean, come on now. How many people walked by her just, well, I guess she’s having a bad day. Really? Two in a row, thee, four, like, what’s going on? You know? And then since then she’s on fire and that’s, that’s awesome. So that’s so cool, Holly. Well, I really appreciate you being a part of the show and just being an ambassador of the message and a living example of this. But I feel like it’s only fair before I wrap this up that I rudely peppered you at the beginning with all those questions. So let’s turn the tables, make it the Holly Watkins podcast. And, uh, I’m the guest.

John Garrett [00:29:56]:
I’m in the hot seat. I’m all yours. What do you got for me?

Holly Watkins [00:29:59]:
So have you written more than your book that I see on the back of your shelf and have read personally, or do you plan on writing more?

John Garrett [00:30:09]:
You know, I feel like there’s probably another book that will come out at some point. I haven’t done a ton of writing on it though. It’s a lot of in my head ideation sort of a thing. Because when I wrote my book, I had a content editor that we did the whole framework of the book first, and then I wrote after that. But man, it’s hard. It’s a lot to get a book out that is good, that you care about like yours. I mean, that’s a lot. And so I also don’t want to write just another book because there’s a lot of books and a lot of bad ones.

John Garrett [00:30:46]:
And so It has to be something that has to be in the world. What’s Your “And “? wasn’t in the world, nothing like it. It had to be out. It also has to match up with timing and all of this. I tend to be 10 years ahead. And so if I released a book now that I have in my mind, people may be like, whoa, I don’t know about this, man. So it’s sort of a slow burn, but it is also a— it was a 2-year process. From start to publish.

John Garrett [00:31:15]:
So I guess I should probably start thinking about that because I’ve had a couple of people ask, or more than a couple actually. So it’s like, all right. But also What’s Your “And”? is brand new to probably most of the people listening to this podcast, and a lot of people, they’ve never heard of it. And it’s still got legs. It’s still very pertinent, very fresh, which I’m proud of. So continue to run with this. As long as I can, for sure, to make sure it gets out there.

Holly Watkins [00:31:44]:
It’s a great concept. I have been a fan since the first time we met.

John Garrett [00:31:48]:
Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, no, I mean, it means a lot. And I know that it’s impacted you personally and you trying to find it. And I just like to tell people, give yourself a lot of grace. I mean, you didn’t know any better. I’m just stopping the merry-go-round to be like, hey, do you want to get off? There’s another way. And don’t overthink it. Just make it one thing for now.

John Garrett [00:32:10]:
And it’s just something else that’s inside you that wants to come out. And then it changes over time and that’s fine too.

Holly Watkins [00:32:17]:
That is true. I mean, I know you started out as an accountant, comedian, and now you’re a podcaster. What, what are some of your other, like, not your “Ands” necessarily, but your interests that you haven’t necessarily explored?

John Garrett [00:32:33]:
One thing that is tough is when you start to have a family and things, I can’t go to as many concerts as I would like to. That would be one thing that would be like, oh, wow, I wish— I see concerts coming through and I’m like, yeah, I just— I mean, if I really, really wanted to, I’m sure I could go, but it would be by myself or it’d be— which isn’t as fun and whatever. So that would be something. But I am pretty intentional with Hey, if this is an itch, let’s scratch it. I mean, I grew up, my dad, we had a small sailboat on a lake. And so I hadn’t been sailing in a long, long time. We were on vacation and they had these catamarans in the ocean, like the little small ones. And I was like, yeah, I’m going to go do that.

John Garrett [00:33:17]:
And it was great. I loved it. It was like riding a bike. I was good at it. I went out and then I came back in, picked up my wife and daughter. We went out. It was super fun, you know, and it’s like, oh, maybe I should do more of this, you know, sort of a thing. So probably sailing would be one where I’m like, oh yeah, that’s a fun thing.

John Garrett [00:33:36]:
I should probably do more of that this summer type of a thing. But, you know, it doesn’t have to be every week. It can be just once or twice, you know, and that’s fine too. But yeah, I’m pretty intentional with let’s do it, you know, why not?

Holly Watkins [00:33:50]:
Yeah, why wait?

John Garrett [00:33:51]:
Yeah. I mean, life is crazy short, as we both know.

Holly Watkins [00:33:55]:
So, kind of along those lines, some of the best memories, like when I grew up, my dad worked in Houston and we lived in a different town, but he would come home on the weekends and he took me sailing in the Guadalupe River. And, you know, I remember that. And you’re right, it doesn’t have to be an everyday or every weekend thing. It can be an occasional thing, but it’s memories that last. So that’s— the sailing reminded me of that.

John Garrett [00:34:25]:
Yeah, totally. I mean, you know, life— live life. Like, don’t exist. Like, actually live. So that’s great. Well, thank you so much, Holly, for being a part of What’s Your “And”? and being such a great ambassador for this message and a living example of this. So this was really, really awesome.

Holly Watkins [00:34:41]:
Well, thank you so much.

John Garrett [00:34:45]:
If you’d like to check out her book, it’s Cashmere Candy Drops: As Memory Unravels, Love Remains. So be sure and check that out on Amazon. And if you’d like to see some pictures of Holly outside of work or connect with her on social media, be sure to go to WhatsYourAnd.com. All the links are there, as well as to her book. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use, and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.